squire12 Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 I get the safety aspect of removing the on sides kick. I think the lack of potential surprise on sides kick in the early part of the game sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 7 minutes ago, squire12 said: I get the safety aspect of removing the on sides kick. I think the lack of potential surprise on sides kick in the early part of the game sucks. Could always still do an onside kick whenever. It's not eliminated, just have option to replace kickoff with the 4th down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 How many onside kicks are there per year? How many injuries have we seen as a result of an onside kick? Leave the damn game alone. I can respect safety concerns, but let's pump the brakes here. JMHO... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 30 minutes ago, incognito_man said: Could always still do an onside kick whenever. It's not eliminated, just have option to replace kickoff with the 4th down. but if you have your QB out after you score a TD, the element of surprise is gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 21 minutes ago, squire12 said: but if you have your QB out after you score a TD, the element of surprise is gone. nobody would do that early in a game (probably). So the early onside-kick would be even MORE of a surprise with this rule than without it. If teams have the option to put their offense on the field, there would be less reason to think a team would ever onside kick it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 8 minutes ago, incognito_man said: nobody would do that early in a game (probably). So the early onside-kick would be even MORE of a surprise with this rule than without it. If teams have the option to put their offense on the field, there would be less reason to think a team would ever onside kick it. New Orleans used the onsides kick to start the second half of the Super Bowl against INDY. Element of surprise went a long way to that being successful IMO. The new rule .... as far as I understand it....effectively eliminates that . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, squire12 said: The new rule .... as far as I understand it....effectively eliminates that . Consider this: At what point would the team know if they are returning a kick vs playing defense ? How does that work if the kicking team runs their offense out there and you have your STs deployed to cover a kick or vice versa? Do you have to burn a timeout ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighCalebR Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Joe said: How many onside kicks are there per year? How many injuries have we seen as a result of an onside kick? Leave the damn game alone. I can respect safety concerns, but let's pump the brakes here. JMHO... I think the problem was the success rate being near 0 for an onside kick now. Have to have some way to make a 14-28 game interesting in the 4th Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 10 minutes ago, Shanedorf said: Consider this: At what point would the team know if they are returning a kick vs playing defense ? How does that work if the kicking team runs their offense out there and you have your STs deployed to cover a kick or vice versa? Do you have to burn a timeout ? Is the kickoff and the 1 down to gain 15 to retain possession happening from the same spot on the field? Does the team have to announce they are going for the possession retention option? Since you can fair catch a kickoff, a team can drop back 1-2 players to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 2 hours ago, squire12 said: New Orleans used the onsides kick to start the second half of the Super Bowl against INDY. Element of surprise went a long way to that being successful IMO. The new rule .... as far as I understand it....effectively eliminates that . you can still onside kick anytime you want. you just have the option to trot offense on field as well. OLD rule: (1) regular kick (2) onside kick NEW rule: (1) regular kick (2) onside kick (3) 4th and 15 You can still "pretend" like you're going to regular kick it and only kick it 10yds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonKarman Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 It'd be better if you always had a 4&15. That way you eliminate de KO, which is the most dangerous play in football (at the same time there are very few KO return TDs). You either punt or pass. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachbuns Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 7 hours ago, HighCalebR said: I think the problem was the success rate being near 0 for an onside kick now. Have to have some way to make a 14-28 game interesting in the 4th Why? If the Pack is up ... it's been darn interesting. If down .. it hasn't been interesting the whole game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighCalebR Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 4 hours ago, VonKarman said: It'd be better if you always had a 4&15. That way you eliminate de KO, which is the most dangerous play in football (at the same time there are very few KO return TDs). You either punt or pass. Or if you're the browns, run a draw. That does seem like it will be the natural progression, doesnt it? Idk how i feel about that, I always enjoyed being on the KO squad. Really lighting someone up is joyful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighCalebR Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 3 hours ago, coachbuns said: Why? If the Pack is up ... it's been darn interesting. If down .. it hasn't been interesting the whole game. Lol. Yeah I dont disagree I guess. Although a Rodgers comeback is always classic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spilltray Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 The new kickoff rules dropped the success rate of onside kicks from 15% average to 8% and 6% the last 2 years, compared to almost 22% the year before and year to year around 15-20% success rate. Since the vast majority of the time teams don't try to convert on 4th down, what is the league average conversion rate for 3rd and 15+? I'm pretty sure it's in that 15-20% ballpark. It gives you a comparable gamble that could swing momentum and help close a gap (or pull away). That adds enough of a dynamic to the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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