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21 minutes ago, StatKing said:

He's definitely gotten his fair share of breaks, I won't disagree with you there but how is that his fault? Did he make Dee Ford line up offsides? Was he the one that made up the Tuck Rule? He's even admitted himself the Raiders got jobbed in that game.

Luck should not factor into GOAT status; in fact, it should count against you. If luck was as influential as you, did you do anything?

 

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Nah, Brady has clearly been better than Rodgers. If you need a QB to get you a bucket in January you take Brady over Rodgers every single time. If you think you are better off with Rodgers when needing a game-winning drive you are lying to yourself. And defense don't matter there.

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2 hours ago, VonKarman said:

Nah, Brady has clearly been better than Rodgers. If you need a QB to get you a bucket in January you take Brady over Rodgers every single time. If you think you are better off with Rodgers when needing a game-winning drive you are lying to yourself. And defense don't matter there.

does rodgers throw that ball to scotty miller

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5 hours ago, VonKarman said:

Nah, Brady has clearly been better than Rodgers. If you need a QB to get you a bucket in January you take Brady over Rodgers every single time. If you think you are better off with Rodgers when needing a game-winning drive you are lying to yourself. And defense don't matter there.

How many times has Rodgers gotten the lead only for the defense to blow it?

How many times has Brady converted an impossible 4th down to Jeff Janis twice on the same drive to send it to overtime only to lose the coin toss and thus the game?

How many times has Aaron’s defense prevented a comeback capability?

How many times has Brady allowed a Hail Mary at the end of the half in a postseason game? Because it’s twice for Aaron.

How many game winning opportunities has Brady had over Rodgers?

How do you have a game wining drive when you’re down two scores with under two minutes to go?

How many times has Brady’s coach decided to kick a field goal on 4th down instead of let his QB go for it like LaFleur did AGAINST Brady?

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6 hours ago, VonKarman said:

Nah, Brady has clearly been better than Rodgers. If you need a QB to get you a bucket in January you take Brady over Rodgers every single time. If you think you are better off with Rodgers when needing a game-winning drive you are lying to yourself. And defense don't matter there.

This has to be media driven, Aaron delivers & the defense collapses almost every single time. This has been the narrative throughout his career. However, when the defense bails out Tom Brady and he secures a comeback, he's the GOAT. Refer NE vs ATL in SB LI. Then look at Arizona and GB playoff game, where they were down 2+ scores for 3 quarters of football and what Aaron was able to Finesse in the 4th quarter. 

Anyone who doesn't think Aaron can or could get the job done over Tom Brady with a Top 10 scoring Defense, is spending too much time either 1. Listening to the media driven narrative or 2. Smoking that good good and I need you to pass it this way, because it's 2022 and I'm trying to believe in things that aren't a reality at this point too. 

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11 hours ago, VonKarman said:

Nah, Brady has clearly been better than Rodgers. If you need a QB to get you a bucket in January you take Brady over Rodgers every single time. If you think you are better off with Rodgers when needing a game-winning drive you are lying to yourself. And defense don't matter there.

Agreed here. Brady is better than Rodgers because of all the reasons @Outpost31criticizes Rodgers. 

Sure, Aaron at his BEST is better than Brady at his BEST. But when the entire range of play is included, Brady wins pretty easily.

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1 hour ago, incognito_man said:

Agreed here. Brady is better than Rodgers because of all the reasons @Outpost31criticizes Rodgers. 

Sure, Aaron at his BEST is better than Brady at his BEST. But when the entire range of play is included, Brady wins pretty easily.

I still maintain what put Brady over the top was his contracts and the flexibility it provided his teams.

If you get into the whole package, yeah, Brady was better.

But you’re including luck and greed in the equation and I don’t think that’s fair.

When comparing solely physical talent and understanding of the game/defense/game management, Rodgers is clearly better.

 

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21 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

An important distinction is physical ability.

Mahomes is better than Brady at literally any point in Brady’s career.

Brady is no doubt a top 5 QB all-time, but that’s due to his mental ability.

If you think otherwise you’re a muppet.

I got into am argument here when someone was talking about how Brady had a cannon arm and I'm like "no, not at all."

 

I wasn't even disputing Brady's GOATness or saying he was a creation of Belicheck, just "nah, his arm is good NFL quality but nothing eye-popping." Which puts him in good company with other great QBs like Montana, Manning, and Brees.

 

But God for f'ing bid that we don't fall down and worship every facet of Tahmmy's game. I'm pretty sure Brady himself would say he's like a 6 or 7 athletically at best.

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2 hours ago, Mr Bad Example said:

I got into am argument here when someone was talking about how Brady had a cannon arm and I'm like "no, not at all."

 

I wasn't even disputing Brady's GOATness or saying he was a creation of Belicheck, just "nah, his arm is good NFL quality but nothing eye-popping." Which puts him in good company with other great QBs like Montana, Manning, and Brees.

 

But God for f'ing bid that we don't fall down and worship every facet of Tahmmy's game. I'm pretty sure Brady himself would say he's like a 6 or 7 athletically at best.

Don't be fooled by Bradys nerdy build and awkward combine film.  The kid was drafted as a catcher in the major leagues.  They like to play the rags to riches story with Brady.  He was a much better athlete than given credit for.

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On 12/16/2022 at 7:06 PM, StatKing said:

Personal insults aside, you're preachin to the choir my friend. You dont have tell me the Packers defense has been a huge let down for the majority of Rodgers career.

If Brady had 3 rings you might be able to sway me, but 7? That is no coincidence and there's been plenty of opportunities for Rodgers in the post season to clutch up and carry us to a win, regardless of the score but he just cant do it like Brady.

Do you really think Rodgers could have came back from 28-3 like Brady? I don't think so.

Would the Packers defense do their job in the second half and allow 7 second half points and 21 points overall?

...also a Kirk Cousins led team now has everyone beat in terms of deficits so there's that.

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On 12/16/2022 at 7:20 PM, Outpost31 said:

No he’s not.

His career is full of Tuck Rules, Myles Jack early whistles and his defense bailing him out.

Additionally, he’s only in position for those iconic game winning drives because his head coach is the only head coach in the league who starts the time management game in the 4th quarter.

He’s a sham. 

Or inexplicable passes on the goal line and complete and utter collapses by the opposing team.

His last two Super Bowl wins allowed a combined 12 points by the opposing team. In four of those wins his defense allowed 21 points or less. That one game where they did allow 21 points it was, arguably, a garbage TD as the Patriots happily let the Eagles eat up the clock down 10.

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16 hours ago, VonKarman said:

Nah, Brady has clearly been better than Rodgers. If you need a QB to get you a bucket in January you take Brady over Rodgers every single time. If you think you are better off with Rodgers when needing a game-winning drive you are lying to yourself. And defense don't matter there.

So here are Brady's 14 postseason game winning drives (listed by season, not year played):

-2001 vs. OAK (DIV): Tuck rule game. Won a coin flip. 23 yard Vinatieri field goal
-2001 vs. STL (SB): Brady 5/8, 53 yards. 48 yard Vinatieri field goal
-2003 vs. TEN (DIV): Started at Titans 40. Brady 1/4, 4 yards. Vinatieri 46 yard field goal. Patriots defense holds on ensuing drive.
-2003 vs. CAR (SB): CAR kicks out of bounds. Brady 4/5, 47 yards. Vinatieri 41 yard field goal.
-2004 vs. PHI (SB): Patriots scored the go ahead TD with 13:49 left in the 4th (Corey Dillon 2 yard run). So it's technically counted. 
-2006 vs. SDC (DIV): Brady 6/10, 54 yards. 1 TD, 1 INT on game tying drive (yes, he threw a pick but was bailed out when Troy Brown forced a fumble that was recovered by NE).

Game winning FG drive: Brady 2/4, 68 yards. Nate Kaeding misses a 54 yard field goal as time expired

-2011 vs. BAL (AFCG): Patriots score go ahead TD with 11:33 to go in 4th. Patriots D holds up on two drives (including one after a one play pick by Brady) and Ravens miss a 32 yard field goal to tie.

-2014 vs. BAL (DIV): Patriots score go ahead TD with 5:21 to go (Brady 9/10, 74 yards, TD). Patriots defense holds on ensuing drive.
-2014 vs. SEA (SB): This was probably Brady's most impressive playoff win imo considering they all but abandoned the run. For the purposes of this, the Patriots picked off Wilson on the 1.

-2016 vs. ATL (SB): Game tying drive: Brady 6/9, 90 yards. James White TD run.

Patriots win a coin flip. Brady 5/6, 50 yards. James White TD run.

-2017 vs. JAX (AFCG): Jaguars punt, Amendola returns to Jacksonville 30. 3/3, 27 yards, TD to Amendola. Patriots defense holds.

-2018 vs. KC (AFCG): The Dee Ford offsides game. Patriots win OT coin flip. Brady 4/9, 60 yards. Burkhead TD run.
-2018 vs. LAR (SB): Game winning TD occurred with 7:03 left to go. Brady 4/4, 67 yards. Michel TD run. Defense held up on other two drives.

-2020 vs. NO (DIV): Go ahead FG occurred with 9:57 to go. Brady 2/2, 43 yards. Succop 36 yard FG. 


So in the playoffs, for these successful game winning drives Brady led the offense to score 7 TDs (2 in OT, 5 with plenty of time to play) vs. 7 FGs. 

5 times it was a score to end OT or a FG as time expired. The other 9 times the defense held. Including 2 FG misses.

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Here are Brady's postseason losses:

-2005 vs. DEN (DIV): No comeback attempt as they were down 11 going into the 4th and it did not get better.

-2006 vs. IND (AFCG): Tied 28-28 after a Rhodes TD with 13:34 to go in the 4th, the Brady-led offense kicks 2 FGs across 5 drives. Manning 3/4, 57 yards, Addai TD to go up 38-34. With :54 seconds, 2 TO. Brady 2/4, INT.

-2007 vs. NYG (SB): Brady 8/11, 71 yards, TD to put Patriots up 14-10 with 2:45 to go. Giants score in 2 minutes to go up 17-14. Brady gets ball back at the 26 with 29 seconds, 3 TOs. Brady 0/3, sack.

-2009 vs. BAL (WC): This was a blowout.

-2010 vs. NYJ (DIV): No real comeback attempt as the Patriots never got the ball back down a score.

-2011 vs. NYG (SB): Brady's two 4th quarter drives. Down 15-17 at own 8 w/ 9:24 to, Brady 4/7, 34 yards, punt. NYG scores a TD. Then down 4 with :57 to go and 1 TO, Brady 2/7, 30 yards, 1 sack.

-2012 vs. BAL (AFCG): Patriots were down 8 with 12:55 to go when Ridley fumbled. Ravens scored a TD on the ensuing drive and the Patriots didn't score again over their next three drives.

-2013 vs. DEN (AFCG): The Patriots never got closer than 10 points in this one.

-2015 vs. DEN (AFCG): Brady 3/8, 50 yards, TD. 2 point attempt failed (they also failed to score any points on the preceding 2 4th quarter drives). 

-2017 vs. PHI (SB): Brady sack/fumble down 5. Brady 3/8, 40 yards with 1:05 to go down 8.

-2019 vs. TEN (WC): Down 1, Patriots fail to score on two drives (5 plays, 4 plays). Brady throws a pick six with :15 to go on his own 1, but they basically had no chance at that point.

-2021 vs. LAR (WC): Bucs score tying TD with :42 to go. Rams go 63 yards in :42 to kick a game winning FG.

So of Brady's 12 losses, four were blowouts, and the defense allowed a score after a potential game winning/tying drive twice (vs. NYG and vs. IND). 8 times they failed to find that one score with a lot time left (this includes vs. NYG and vs. IND).

Edited by Striker
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