NFL News & Notes

[hitnhope]

1 hour ago, Sandy said:

How is that better than us? Aside from giving massive points for Mahomes of course.

How is it not better?   Name me the equivalents on the Packers. 

Especially looking at later round contributors.   It really isn't close if you look at it without bias.  

For example, Gb picked Myers and 1 pick later KC picked Creed Humphrey.  The contribution from Humphrey has been much better than Myers. 

Kelce vs. Sternberger + Deguara -  All 3rd rounders.

Thornhill in the 2nd is a better player than we got out of Savage in the first.

 

Edited January 19, 2023 by hitnhope

[hitnhope]

1 hour ago, Mr Bad Example said:

They aren't our players, therefore they MUST be far superior. 

Or is your view that our players MUST be better because they are ours? 

Forget that KC has won an average of 13 games a season over the last 4 years along with a SB win.

[MacReady]

1 hour ago, hitnhope said:

Or is your view that our players MUST be better because they are ours? 

Forget that KC has won an average of 13 games a season over the last 4 years along with a SB win.

Kinda like the Packers from 2010-2014?

[Mr Bad Example]

11 hours ago, hitnhope said:

Or is your view that our players MUST be better because they are ours? 

No, I just feel like some here spend their Sundays watching a team where they hate the GM, all the coaches, and 50 of the players. 

 

And I don't understand why one would subject themselves to such misery.

[Kepler]

19 minutes ago, Mr Bad Example said:

No, I just feel like some here spend their Sundays watching a team where they hate the GM, all the coaches, and 50 of the players. 

 

And I don't understand why one would subject themselves to such misery.

Some people like to hurt themselves

[Sandy]

12 hours ago, hitnhope said:

How is it not better?   Name me the equivalents on the Packers.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/gnb/draft.htm

I'll just leave this here and let everyone decide. Must be rough that the Chiefs only get 1-2 starters each draft.

 

[hitnhope]

I want a new GM.   I don't think we will ever win a SB under Gute.   Each year under his watch the talent level of the team overall drops.  When we have been close he hasn't assembled a complete roster.

I point out KC's better performance through the draft because many on this site have used the Packers draft position as an excuse.  Well KC has been in similar draft positions and performed far better.

Football is more about Jimmy and Joe's rather than X's and O's.   When the GM isn't doing as well getting the players you lose competitiveness.  How long do we ride this current trend of getting worse before we do something about it?   How bad does the GM's roster management have to be to do something about it?   How badly does he have to manage the QB position for it to matter to people.

To be a fan does a person have to ignore everything and just blindly support the team and it's leadership?

[hitnhope]

10 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

Kinda like the Packers from 2010-2014?

Back when we had a very good GM.

[hitnhope]

2 minutes ago, Sandy said:

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/gnb/draft.htm

I'll just leave this here and let everyone decide. Must be rough that the Chiefs only get 1-2 starters each draft.

 

Thanks.   I tried bringing some of this with my post showing starting players from KC and where they were picked. so welcome an honest comparison.

[ThatJerkDave]

Are we talking about the same Chiefs that:

Drafted Clyde Edwards-Helaire in the first round? Or the one that drafted Mecole Hardman in the second? Or maybe the ones that drafted KeiVarae Russell in the third?

 

Yes, they have gotten some hits.  And yes, they have a generational talent at both TE and QB.  It isn't like they have some super secret evaluation process and we are throwing darts.  Pay more attention to other teams and you will see just as many, if not more, warts than the Packers.  

[vegas492]

Chiefs also traded for Orlando Brown who has not been a franchise LT for them.  That's why they are in this contract dance with him.  It's hard to trade that much and then not be able to ink a long term deal.

Then there is this about the Chiefs.  How many Super Bowls have they won again?

I think that Mahomes has the same number of Super Bowl wins as Rodgers does.  And as much as I like the Chiefs and root for Mahomes....it could be that he's the next Rodgers.  We don't really know.  

Run game is kindda bad.  Defense overall is not good.  And he's got Burrow and Josh Allen breathing down his neck.

If there is a team out there that resembles the post 2010 Packers....to me it is the Chiefs.

[squire12]

10 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Chiefs also traded for Orlando Brown who has not been a franchise LT for them.  That's why they are in this contract dance with him.  It's hard to trade that much and then not be able to ink a long term deal.

Then there is this about the Chiefs.  How many Super Bowls have they won again?

I think that Mahomes has the same number of Super Bowl wins as Rodgers does.  And as much as I like the Chiefs and root for Mahomes....it could be that he's the next Rodgers.  We don't really know.  

Run game is kindda bad.  Defense overall is not good.  And he's got Burrow and Josh Allen breathing down his neck.

If there is a team out there that resembles the post 2010 Packers....to me it is the Chiefs.

I know you are not comparing Mahomes to Rodgers, but stating that each has 1 super bowl win, while not stating that Mahomes has at least been to another Super Bowl and has played about1/3 the number of seasons as Rodgers is very misleading

[Striker]

20 hours ago, hitnhope said:

KC has done a far better job with the draft.  Many more hits in later rounds, and stars like Kelce, Tyreke Hill, Chris Jones after the 1st round.  Effective drafting gives them more room to maneuver the roster than the Packers.

 

Starters from their draft- round in parenthesis.

Rookies starting: Isaiah Pachecko(7), Karlaftis(1), McDuffie(1); Nickle -Watson(7)

2nd year players: Trey Smith(6), Bolton(2); Creed Humphrey(2)

3rd year: Willie Gay(2):Snead(4)

4th Year: Khalen Suanders(3); Thornhill(2)

Older: Mahomes(1), Chris Jones(2); Kelce(3)

 

Gute hasn't been able to support the roster like this and the excuse of draft position cannot be used as KC has been picking as late as GB.

So, first off, Khalen Saunders hasn't started a game this season. Also, it's funny when you cite Saunders as an example of effective drafting when his numbers basically mirror Kingsley Keke but he's a third rounder vs. Keke being a fifth rounder.

Also, you forgot Derrick Nnadi so the numbers are a wash.

KC has 11 of 22 starters drafted by Veach (charitably considering Watson a starter). The Packers have 10 of 22 starters drafted by Gute (Watson, Doubs, Jenkins, Myers, Runyan, Wyatt, Walker, Enagbare, Alexander, Savage).

If we were to look back at last season...going by list of starters per PFR (this is likely either start of season or midseason since Alexander is missing but Jenkins is on it), KC had 9 of 22 starters drafted by Veach (CEH, Hardman, Humphrey, Trey Smith, Lucas Niang, Willie Gay, Nick Bolton, L'Jarius Sneed, Juan Thornhill).

The Packers had 8 of 22 starters drafted by Gute (MVS, Jenkins, Runyan, Newman, Keke, Gary, Stokes, Savage).

If you want to go by each team's last playoff game, KC had 6 (Thuney, Humphrey, Gay, Bolton, Sneed, Thornhill) and GB had 9 (MVS, Myers, Newman, Runyan, Keke, Gary, Stokes, Alexander, Savage).

In fact, both teams from last year mirrored each other. Their most important pieces were either from the other GM (Mahomes, Kelce, Hill, Jones vs. Rodgers/Adams/Clark) or were FA signings/trades (Frank Clark, Orlando Brown, Mathieu vs. the Smiths/Amos/Campbell).

Also, Veach also has 2 of 12 players (Nnadi - 3rd, Thornhill - 2nd) as starters and 5 of 12 overall (adding Allegretti - 7th, Saunders - 3rd, and Hardman - 2nd) from his first two drafts on the roster. Gute has 4 starters (Gary - 1st, Savage - 1st , Jenkins - 2nd, Alexander - 1st) and 4 of 19 overall. So both GMs are keeping their early round picks but neither are really giving second contracts to their later round picks.

...which tracks with pretty much every other team in the NFL/the general odds of how the draft works.

So, it remains funny to me that you try to prove Gute is doing it wrong (again, my biggest issue is the handling of the Rodgers situation) but then prop up a GM who mirrors Gute in a lot of ways...except he has a 27 year old QB who is still ascending vs. Gute having a 39 year old future HoFer who is on the decline.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Striker

[Striker]

@Norm

[squire12]

6 minutes ago, Striker said:

So, first off, Khalen Saunders hasn't started a game this season. However, you forgot Derrick Nnadi so the numbers are a wash.

KC has 11 of 22 starters drafted by Veach (charitably considering Watson a starter). The Packers have 10 of 22 starters drafted by Gute (Watson, Doubs, Jenkins, Myers, Runyan, Wyatt, Walker, Enagbare, Alexander, Savage).

Going by list of starters per PFR (this is likely either start of season or midseason since Alexander is missing but Jenkins is on it), KC had 9 of 22 starters drafted by Veach (CEH, Hardman, Humphrey, Trey Smith, Lucas Niang, Willie Gay, Nick Bolton, L'Jarius Sneed, Juan Thornhill).

The Packers had 8 of 22 starters drafted by Gute (MVS, Jenkins, Runyan, Newman, Keke, Gary, Stokes, Savage).

If you want to go by each team's last playoff game, KC had 6 (Thuney, Humphrey, Gay, Bolton, Sneed, Thornhill) and GB had 9 (MVS, Myers, Newman, Runyan, Keke, Gary, Stokes, Alexander, Savage).

In fact, both teams from last year mirrored each other. Their most important pieces were either from the other GM (Mahomes, Kelce, Hill, Jones vs. Rodgers/Adams/Clark) or were FA signings/trades (Frank Clark, Orlando Brown, Mathieu vs. the Smiths/Amos/Campbell).

Also, Veach also has 2 of 12 players (Nnadi - 3rd, Thornhill - 2nd) as starters and 5 of 12 overall (adding Allegretti - 7th, Saunders - 3rd, and Hardman - 2nd) from his first two drafts on the roster. Gute has 4 starters (Gary - 1st, Savage - 1st , Jenkins - 2nd, Alexander - 1st) and 4 of 19 overall. So both GMs are keeping their early round picks but neither are really giving second contracts to their later round picks.

...which tracks with pretty much every other team in the NFL/the general odds of how the draft works.

Thuney was a FA singing by KC.  Drafted by NE