NFL News & Notes

[PackFan13]

6 hours ago, squire12 said:

4 straight AFCCG

back to back Super Bowl appearances with 1 title.  

At current time, that is better than Rodgers 

Mahomes played with the best TE and WR combo we've seen in a very long time for the majority of his career. To say like that's not paramount is incorrect. He's also got one of the best offensive coaches in the league.

Hill is better than Adams by a hair given his game breaking speed. Kelce might be better than both of them and is one of the best to ever play the position. 

Mahomes is a great player that has the ultimate situation with coach, players and a front office that makes moves to improve already good teams. 

We've had incompetence in special teams for a decade that literally cost us a super bowl trip vs Seattle and underwhelming defensive units the vast majority of the years. 

Not getting proven players via trade has plagued this team for a long time. We needed someone next to Adams that wasnt a space cadet or run blocker but refused to invest to have underwhelming drafts after the first 2 seasons with Gute. 

He had more than enough of a chance and 2020 will go down as an all time bad draft for us. We need a new philosophy

 

[Scoremore]

22 minutes ago, PackFan13 said:

Mahomes played with the best TE and WR combo we've seen in a very long time for the majority of his career. To say like that's not paramount is incorrect. He's also got one of the best offensive coaches in the league.

Hill is better than Adams by a hair given his game breaking speed. Kelce might be better than both of them and is one of the best to ever play the position. 

Mahomes is a great player that has the ultimate situation with coach, players and a front office that makes moves to improve already good teams. 

We've had incompetence in special teams for a decade that literally cost us a super bowl trip vs Seattle and underwhelming defensive units the vast majority of the years. 

Not getting proven players via trade has plagued this team for a long time. We needed someone next to Adams that wasnt a space cadet or run blocker but refused to invest to have underwhelming drafts after the first 2 seasons with Gute. 

He had more than enough of a chance and 2020 will go down as an all time bad draft for us. We need a new philosophy

 

Kind of a mute point at this stage.  We are in cap hell.  At least we'll have a somewhat decent drafting position this year. We are a draft and develop team and it's served us pretty well over the last 30 years.  Gute has sprinkled in a few FA's.  Personally I think trading away all of your draft capital well see the LA Rams.  Eventually it will bite you in the arse.  2020 draft hinges on Love.  TBD...

[squire12]

2 hours ago, PackFan13 said:

Mahomes played with the best TE and WR combo we've seen in a very long time for the majority of his career. To say like that's not paramount is incorrect. He's also got one of the best offensive coaches in the league.

Hill is better than Adams by a hair given his game breaking speed. Kelce might be better than both of them and is one of the best to ever play the position. 

Mahomes is a great player that has the ultimate situation with coach, players and a front office that makes moves to improve already good teams. 

We've had incompetence in special teams for a decade that literally cost us a super bowl trip vs Seattle and underwhelming defensive units the vast majority of the years. 

Not getting proven players via trade has plagued this team for a long time. We needed someone next to Adams that wasnt a space cadet or run blocker but refused to invest to have underwhelming drafts after the first 2 seasons with Gute. 

He had more than enough of a chance and 2020 will go down as an all time bad draft for us. We need a new philosophy

 

Driver, Jennings,  Nelson, Jones, Cobb....those dudes were dog meat as weapons!!!

GB has had crap for OL the majority of Rodgers time in GB.  Bulaga, Sutton, Lang, Linsley,  Bahktiari.....just porous up front.

[Mr Bad Example]

1 hour ago, squire12 said:

Driver, Jennings,  Nelson, Jones, Cobb....those dudes were dog meat as weapons!!!

Were any of them drafted in the first round? If not, then they're trash. 

[Sandy]

4 hours ago, packfanfb said:

Vikings fired Donatell. Bucs also made several staff changes after one subpar season. LaFleur won't do anything. He's likely afraid to fire yet another DC because it would only make him look incompetent. In reality, neither Barry nor Stenavich are qualified for their positions, but it pays to be friends with Matt. 

I'm getting real concerned about MLF. When you go into a season thinking Super Bowl or bust and you miss the playoffs and there is no scapegoat?

[Sasquatch]

7 hours ago, packfanfb said:

Vikings fired Donatell. Bucs also made several staff changes after one subpar season. LaFleur won't do anything. He's likely afraid to fire yet another DC because it would only make him look incompetent. In reality, neither Barry nor Stenavich are qualified for their positions, but it pays to be friends with Matt. 

Packer writers on Twitter are losing their minds, convinced the Vikings are going to hire Leonard to replace Donatell.  Wouldn’t that be an ironic kick in the nards.

[OneTwoSixFive]

8 hours ago, Scoremore said:

Kind of a mute (moot) point, at this stage.  We are in cap hell.  At least we'll have a somewhat decent drafting position this year. We are a draft and develop team and it's served us pretty well over the last 30 years.  Gute has sprinkled in a few FA's.  Personally I think trading away all of your draft capital well see the LA Rams.  Eventually it will bite you in the arse.  2020 draft hinges on Love.  TBD...

Rams are a very up and down team - great one year, crashed the next. Their 'trade away most good draft picks' policy might work for a franchise that can't get it right in the draft, but trading picks for proven players means you seldom get quality players on cheap first contracts, so your cap will always be an issue.

I admit the Packers are also in cap hell in a big way at this time, but that is a departure from their usual business model.

As you say, a lot really does hinge on Love (for the success of the 2020 draft, but even more, in terms of the future), while right now, a lot hinges on AR and what he decides.

As for the draft position, 15th won't get a generational player in round one (they are usually top 5 picks), but its high enough to get a great athlete who can also play effectively........or a truly rare one who needs seasoning, like Rashan Gary.

Edited January 20, 2023 by OneTwoSixFive

[Laces Out]

7 hours ago, Sandy said:

I'm getting real concerned about MLF. When you go into a season thinking Super Bowl or bust and you miss the playoffs and there is no scapegoat?

GB is one of the cushiest front office and coaching jobs in the in the league, no media pressure, and no owner expecting results, just corporate steady as she goes.

[packfanfb]

5 hours ago, Sasquatch said:

Packer writers on Twitter are losing their minds, convinced the Vikings are going to hire Leonard to replace Donatell.  Wouldn’t that be an ironic kick in the nards.

Yea saw that. I think a sleeper for Minny could be Fangio, which I hope doesn't happen. 

[packfanfb]

8 hours ago, Sandy said:

I'm getting real concerned about MLF. When you go into a season thinking Super Bowl or bust and you miss the playoffs and there is no scapegoat?

Yea, his decision-making on the coordinator front has been pretty mind-boggling to say the least. I wonder if some of that is simply the Packers being cheap (trying to give MLF the benefit of the doubt that he's not dumb). We saw that situation play out with Rizzi years ago when we thought we were going to land him for ST. This season, we finally hired a respected ST guy and our unit substantially improved. 

When it comes to offense and defense, MLF is off to a rough start. First, we lose Hackett who proceeds to maybe have the worst HC showing in NFL history with the Broncos, so bad that he doesn't even survive the season. We also lose Getsy to the Bears who proceed to be the worst team in the NFL and now have the No. 1 pick. Not exactly a great start for the LaFleur Tree. Then he goes and replaces Hackett with an OL coach. 

Defensively, look no further than the Barry decision. MLF remains the only person, maybe in the United States who thought that was a good idea at the time, now he's afraid to fire his buddy.

As an organization, the Packers seem to be way behind the curve. Teams like the Rams and Niners keep having guys plucked year after year, both coaches and executives, and both have been at the forefront of hiring qualified minority candidates who have been hired by other teams, resulting in draft compensation for those teams as well. Meanwhile, in GB, our guys hardly even get any looks. That speaks volumes when the other 31 teams aren't even really sniffing around your guys.  

Edited January 20, 2023 by packfanfb

[jleisher]

5 hours ago, Sasquatch said:

Packer writers on Twitter are losing their minds, convinced the Vikings are going to hire Leonard to replace Donatell.  Wouldn’t that be an ironic kick in the nards.

If they do hire Leonhard, MLF should be fired?

[vegas492]

14 hours ago, hitnhope said:

I understand your points. I'm more focused on the poor handling of AR last year and instead of taking the draft picks and building a stronger future he gave him too much control.   I'm focused on the lack of plus starting talent brought in over the last 5+ years.    I will grant for the Packers part of the problem is the last few TT drafts being subpar as well.

The problem as I see it is the lack of plus level contributors. I just think the lack of draft hits coupled with the larger issues of roster mgt and the ridiculous management of our QB position should have him on the hot seat.   

The other big problem with the organization is sticking with failed coaches too long.   This goes back further than Gute.   We needed to move on from Capers forever.   We needed to put much bigger thought to ST roster and coaching for years.  It is distressing to watch us stick with Barry at DC.    How many years do we give him?

 

 

It is because of TT's failed drafts at the end of his tenure that Gute was able to bring in...ahem....Amos.  Z Smith.  P Smith.  B. Turner.  All of those guys lived up to their free agent deals and were huge parts of GB being 13-3 how many times again?

Why is this important?  Because that was the one freakin' year that Gute had money to get aggressive.  And he hit on all of those signings.

Then he didn't have much money and had to bargain shop.

Then he went out and found a dude named Campbell on the FA scrap heap and got an all pro year out of him.

And when needing a corner, because of injuries, he identified Rasul Douglas.  Who not only helped the defense, but thrived in it.

Then if you want to look at the draft, my God, what more do you want from a GM?  Look at how we acquired Jaire Alexander.  He traded.  And got an extra first round pick for it.  Think about it.  He got the best corner in that class, arguably a top 5 corner in the NFL...BY TRADING DOWN!

What else has he done?  Drafted Rashaan Gary.  Who was developing into a top 10 ish EDGE player in the league.  And I think he did that when drafting Rashaan Gary at all was a risky proposition.

Then he found Stokes late in the first.  Size/speed corner.  Great rookie season.  Meh year two.  But man, you cannot ignore that Stokes was great as a rookie.

He pulled a starting guard in the mid rounds.  Got one of the best guards in the league in round two, who may also be a left tackle.  Found a complimentary WR who started for 4 years.  Found a LT as an UDFA who can actually play.  

And...no small thing...it looks like he may have stacked some actual talent on the DL.

If I'm criticizing Gute for the draft....it's Savage.  Never liked that pick.  He wasn't a dynamic deep safety when we took him.  But even that?  Dude flashed hard in year two.  Looked like he had "it" to be a top safety in the league.  And now it looks like he could be a nickle corner with good coverage skills.

Then you have the Love draft.  Kindda nice having a backup QB with upside.  Dillon.  I think we took him too early.  But he's solid.  Too bad we don't let him move sticks more on third and fourth and short.  Deguara.  Took him too early.   My issue with that draft class is yours...took the QB a year early.  But that should tell you how much they liked Love's talent.  And?  I feel like they took Deguara and Dillon a round early.  

Then I have to remind myself...I've always wanted GB to take a guy a round early if they really like him, because GB always picks late in the round anyway.  As opposed to missing out on the player, just overdraft him a little bit.  Which they did.  So, I am a hypocrite.  

But man...it is hard railing against Gute for FA and the draft.  I don't know how many GM's hit in the draft AND in free agency like Gute has.  

And I very much get the anti-Gute sentiment over the handling of Rodgers contract.  But...I have a hunch that was not 100% a Gute decision.  It was made well above.  And that is where I'd focus the "hate" if I were you.

 

[vegas492]

10 hours ago, squire12 said:

Driver, Jennings,  Nelson, Jones, Cobb....those dudes were dog meat as weapons!!!

GB has had crap for OL the majority of Rodgers time in GB.  Bulaga, Sutton, Lang, Linsley,  Bahktiari.....just porous up front.

Thank you. You kept me from having to post that.

Rodgers has had great weapons.  Because you can throw in young Eddie Lacy.  And that line has always been solid.

It's the defense that has been suspect.  Kindda like KC.  Only I feel like KC's offensive line has not really been up to par like GB's was.  Maybe it is now, because I think they drafted some good young guys there, but prior to 2 years ago...it was not good.

[Spartacus]

20 minutes ago, jleisher said:

6 hours ago, Sasquatch said:

Packer writers on Twitter are losing their minds, convinced the Vikings are going to hire Leonard to replace Donatell.  Wouldn’t that be an ironic kick in the nards.

If they do hire Leonhard, MLF should be fired?

If Leonhard ends up being great then yes but IMO Donatell sucked but he is just a scapegoat to the much larger issue on that D which is a severe lack of young talent. That Vikings defense is more over the hill names than actual production at this point with no true standouts right now.  Kendricks, Smith, Hicks, and Peterson are all over the hill. They may be able to start the year fresh but we saw down the stretch all of them fall apart to varying degrees. Hunter is by far their best star on defense and IMO although still pretty good seems to either have fallen off a bit due to injury or is still recovering. Outside of Asamoah who has shown some talent the rest of that defense is filled with JAGs. Booth and Cine both couldn't crack starting jobs and were injured as well so there isn't much new talent to be excited about either. They have holes pretty much everywhere outside of Hunter that could be replaced. 

[Scoremore]

28 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

It is because of TT's failed drafts at the end of his tenure that Gute was able to bring in...ahem....Amos.  Z Smith.  P Smith.  B. Turner.  All of those guys lived up to their free agent deals and were huge parts of GB being 13-3 how many times again?

Why is this important?  Because that was the one freakin' year that Gute had money to get aggressive.  And he hit on all of those signings.

Then he didn't have much money and had to bargain shop.

Then he went out and found a dude named Campbell on the FA scrap heap and got an all pro year out of him.

And when needing a corner, because of injuries, he identified Rasul Douglas.  Who not only helped the defense, but thrived in it.

Then if you want to look at the draft, my God, what more do you want from a GM?  Look at how we acquired Jaire Alexander.  He traded.  And got an extra first round pick for it.  Think about it.  He got the best corner in that class, arguably a top 5 corner in the NFL...BY TRADING DOWN!

What else has he done?  Drafted Rashaan Gary.  Who was developing into a top 10 ish EDGE player in the league.  And I think he did that when drafting Rashaan Gary at all was a risky proposition.

Then he found Stokes late in the first.  Size/speed corner.  Great rookie season.  Meh year two.  But man, you cannot ignore that Stokes was great as a rookie.

He pulled a starting guard in the mid rounds.  Got one of the best guards in the league in round two, who may also be a left tackle.  Found a complimentary WR who started for 4 years.  Found a LT as an UDFA who can actually play.  

And...no small thing...it looks like he may have stacked some actual talent on the DL.

If I'm criticizing Gute for the draft....it's Savage.  Never liked that pick.  He wasn't a dynamic deep safety when we took him.  But even that?  Dude flashed hard in year two.  Looked like he had "it" to be a top safety in the league.  And now it looks like he could be a nickle corner with good coverage skills.

Then you have the Love draft.  Kindda nice having a backup QB with upside.  Dillon.  I think we took him too early.  But he's solid.  Too bad we don't let him move sticks more on third and fourth and short.  Deguara.  Took him too early.   My issue with that draft class is yours...took the QB a year early.  But that should tell you how much they liked Love's talent.  And?  I feel like they took Deguara and Dillon a round early.  

Then I have to remind myself...I've always wanted GB to take a guy a round early if they really like him, because GB always picks late in the round anyway.  As opposed to missing out on the player, just overdraft him a little bit.  Which they did.  So, I am a hypocrite.  

But man...it is hard railing against Gute for FA and the draft.  I don't know how many GM's hit in the draft AND in free agency like Gute has.  

And I very much get the anti-Gute sentiment over the handling of Rodgers contract.  But...I have a hunch that was not 100% a Gute decision.  It was made well above.  And that is where I'd focus the "hate" if I were you.

 

This is one of the best posts I've read in awhile.  Pretty much sums it up.  Right on Vegas.