NFL News & Notes

[vegas492]

3 hours ago, OneTwoSixFive said:

As for the draft position, 15th won't get a generational player in round one (they are usually top 5 picks), but its high enough to get a great athlete who can also play effectively........or a truly rare one who needs seasoning, like Rashan Gary.

I wanna argue against this....hang on....

Looking back 10 years.  Post 15 in the draft...

2013: Xavier Rhodes, #25.  DeAndre Hopkins, #27.  Travis Frederick, #31.  Darius Slay, #36.

2014:  Zack Martin, #16.  DeMarcus Lawrence, #34.  *Aaron Donald went #13.

2015:  Marcus Peters, #18.  Pretty weak draft at the top.

2016:  Kenny Clark, #27.  Weak draft.

2017:  Marlon Humphrey, #16.  Jonathan Allen, #17.  TreDavious White, #27.  TJ Watt, #30.

2018:  Tremaine Edumunds, #16.  Derwin James, #17.  Jaire Alexander, #18.  Leighton Vander Esch, #19.  DJ Moore, #34.  Llamar Jackson, #32.  Nick Chubb, #35.  Shaquille Leonard, #36.  (Wow)

2019: Brian Burns, #16.  Dexter Lawrence, #17.  Jeffery Simmons, #19.  Josh Jacobs, #24.  Deebo Samuel, #36.  

2020:  Jerry Jeudy, #15.  CeeDee Lamb, #17.  Justin Jefferson, #22.  

2021:  Mac Jones, #15.  Christian Darrisaw, #23.  Najee Harris, #24.   (Phillips and Paye #18, #21 as well)

2022:  Way too early to tell.

There are a lot of really, really good players that tend to be available at #15.  Not sure if they are "franchise" players, but still, GB should get some good talent to choose from.  The key is....as you know...hitting on the right guy.

 

 

 

 

[vegas492]

6 minutes ago, Scoremore said:

This is one of the best posts I've read in awhile.  Pretty much sums it up.  Right on Vegas.

Thank you.  But it was a novel.  

Top of your head...any other GM out there hit on picks AND  in free agency as much as Gute?

I'm sure there are some.  But I don't follow other teams that much.

Not sure that Lynch has had the need to go into free agency too much.  

[Scoremore]

2 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Thank you.  But it was a novel.  

Top of your head...any other GM out there hit on picks AND  in free agency as much as Gute?

I'm sure there are some.  But I don't follow other teams that much.

Not sure that Lynch has had the need to go into free agency too much.  

That would take some serious research and I'm too lazy.  Maybe some other guys will want to chime in.  I'm a big Gute supporter and your post explains exactly why.  

[vegas492]

4 minutes ago, Scoremore said:

That would take some serious research and I'm too lazy.  Maybe some other guys will want to chime in.  I'm a big Gute supporter and your post explains exactly why.  

I have more support for Gute than hate.  

I'm still not happy that we didn't find a better compliment to Adams when we had a great chance at another SB.  I look back at the Beckham thing....we wanted him...just didn't offer enough.  And in the end, that was probably a mistake.  

And the ignoring of WR's in the draft prior to this past year ended up being a dumb move.

Outside of that?  I can still criticize the Love draft.  I won't criticize the player...just the timing.  But I can only do that with the power of hindsight.

And back to Adams...I feel like we alienated him not this past offseason, but the offseason prior.  If we were willing to pay him that much money in the end, I wish we would have done it prior to his lame duck contract year.  Give the man the respect he deserved.  Would have meant a much different off-season last year, but I was a huge Adams fan and still wish he was here.

And in looking at that...compared to what he's done right?  I'm nitpicking.  But, that's what you do when you've been so close yet not tasted the cigar since 2010.

[Striker]

6 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Thank you.  But it was a novel.  

Top of your head...any other GM out there hit on picks AND  in free agency as much as Gute?

I'm sure there are some.  But I don't follow other teams that much.

Not sure that Lynch has had the need to go into free agency too much.  

Lynch has to variable results (usually undone due to injury). Richard Sherman, Jerick McKinnon (got a 4 year $30M contract but tore his ACL), Dee Ford, Kwon Alexander, Jason Verrett, Charvarius Ward. He has been a bit more aggressive trading.

Of course, he also had the benefit of drafting top 10 his first three seasons (Solomon Thomas, Mike McGlinchey, Nick Bosa) plus utilizing a top 12 pick in 2021 to trade up to draft Trey Lance.

[hitnhope]

From reading these Gute posts you would actually think we were a good team instead of below .500.

His mistakes overshadow the few hits.  We are getting worse as a team under his watch.

[OneTwoSixFive]

1 hour ago, vegas492 said:

I wanna argue against this....hang on....

Looking back 10 years.  Post 15 in the draft...

2013: Xavier Rhodes, #25.  DeAndre Hopkins, #27.  Travis Frederick, #31.  Darius Slay, #36.

2014:  Zack Martin, #16.  DeMarcus Lawrence, #34.  *Aaron Donald went #13.

2015:  Marcus Peters, #18.  Pretty weak draft at the top.

2016:  Kenny Clark, #27.  Weak draft.

2017:  Marlon Humphrey, #16.  Jonathan Allen, #17.  TreDavious White, #27.  TJ Watt, #30.

2018:  Tremaine Edumunds, #16.  Derwin James, #17.  Jaire Alexander, #18.  Leighton Vander Esch, #19.  DJ Moore, #34.  Llamar Jackson, #32.  Nick Chubb, #35.  Shaquille Leonard, #36.  (Wow)

2019: Brian Burns, #16.  Dexter Lawrence, #17.  Jeffery Simmons, #19.  Josh Jacobs, #24.  Deebo Samuel, #36.  

2020:  Jerry Jeudy, #15.  CeeDee Lamb, #17.  Justin Jefferson, #22.  

2021:  Mac Jones, #15.  Christian Darrisaw, #23.  Najee Harris, #24.   (Phillips and Paye #18, #21 as well)

2022:  Way too early to tell.

There are a lot of really, really good players that tend to be available at #15.  Not sure if they are "franchise" players, but still, GB should get some good talent to choose from.  The key is....as you know...hitting on the right guy.

Ok, but we aren't really arguing about the same thing. You are using hindsight to look back at the players who turned out great, while I'm looking at the guys available this year who look to be the best prospects, before they play an NFL down (and several of the high picks WILL be busts - we just don't know which ones).

The highest picks every year will have the best tools and the highest production (and often big-college guys who played good competition). I freely admit players drafted later can surpass them, once they are in the NFL.

Edited January 20, 2023 by OneTwoSixFive

[Mr. Fussnputz]

1 hour ago, vegas492 said:

I have more support for Gute than hate.  

I'm still not happy that we didn't find a better compliment to Adams when we had a great chance at another SB.  I look back at the Beckham thing....we wanted him...just didn't offer enough.  And in the end, that was probably a mistake.  

And the ignoring of WR's in the draft prior to this past year ended up being a dumb move.

Outside of that?  I can still criticize the Love draft.  I won't criticize the player...just the timing.  But I can only do that with the power of hindsight.

And back to Adams...I feel like we alienated him not this past offseason, but the offseason prior.  If we were willing to pay him that much money in the end, I wish we would have done it prior to his lame duck contract year.  Give the man the respect he deserved.  Would have meant a much different off-season last year, but I was a huge Adams fan and still wish he was here.

And in looking at that...compared to what he's done right?  I'm nitpicking.  But, that's what you do when you've been so close yet not tasted the cigar since 2010.

In Gute's defense, he's had to try and overcome the lack of good coaching on defense by overloading that side of the ball with draft capital. It's kind of worked, but it hurt the offense. 

Gute's only mortal sin was how he has handled the Rodgers situation. First not trading him last off season, and then compounding that error by giving him this God-awful contract. Honestly, though, I can't believe Gute is that stupid. Mark Murphy OTOH...

[vegas492]

1 hour ago, hitnhope said:

From reading these Gute posts you would actually think we were a good team instead of below .500.

His mistakes overshadow the few hits.  We are getting worse as a team under his watch.

We've had one "down" year.  And still we were one game out of the playoffs.

Throw in a season ending injury to our best pass rusher and a broken thumb to our quarterback and I think you can squarely put "injuries" as a culprit over Gute.

Of course, unless you want to rail on him for failing to address the WR room.  Totally on board with that.

2019: 13-3

2020: 13-3

2021: 13-4

2022: 8-9

47 wins, 19 losses. Over 4 years.  Course, we didn't win the big games at the end in any of those years, but that won/loss record indicates that we did not "get worse as a team under his watch".

[vegas492]

1 hour ago, OneTwoSixFive said:

Ok, but we aren't really arguing about the same thing. You are using hindsight to look back at the players who turned out great, while I'm looking at the guys available this year who look to be the best prospects, before they play an NFL down (and several of the high picks WILL be busts - we just don't know which ones).

The highest picks every year will have the best tools and the highest production (and often big-college guys who played good competition). I freely admit players drafted later can surpass them, once they are in the NFL.

Right...but if you look at the past as an indicator of the future, you will see that there are typically plenty of really good players taken pick 15 or later.

We both know, you gotta choose the right guy.  But let's not sit here and think that there won't be good guys available at 15.  Whether or not we identify them and draft one of them is the great unknown.  But talent will be there.

[vegas492]

39 minutes ago, Mr. Fussnputz said:

In Gute's defense, he's had to try and overcome the lack of good coaching on defense by overloading that side of the ball with draft capital. It's kind of worked, but it hurt the offense. 

Gute's only mortal sin was how he has handled the Rodgers situation. First not trading him last off season, and then compounding that error by giving him this God-awful contract. Honestly, though, I can't believe Gute is that stupid. Mark Murphy OTOH...

The other mortal sin is the ignoring of the WR position...in my book.

Then if you want to nit pick...the drafting of Love.  We know he picked him a year or two early.  Which should tell us how much they liked the talent that Jordan had coming out.  So maybe, just maybe, that is forgivable.

[OneTwoSixFive]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fussnputz said:

Gute's only mortal sin was how he has handled the Rodgers situation. First not trading him last off season, and then compounding that error by giving him this God-awful contract. Honestly, though, I can't believe Gute is that stupid. Mark Murphy OTOH...

Yes, retaining Rodgers and pushing everything into future years cap, was THE big error, imo.

I'm ok with his drafting, it isn't stellar, but I think it's solid enough to stay with him. If only the front office could have been bolder, we would probably be in a much better position than we are. Gute forgot the old GMs advice - move a player on a year too early, rather than a year too late.

Sadly, I expect management to double down on their mistake and run things back virtually unchanged.......and if I hadn't already railed at the too-often used quote about doing the same things again and expecting............well, you know the quote, I don't need to repeat it in full. I'm hoping for boldness. It isn't looking likely at this time but there is still hope, until a firm Rodgers decision is made.

I don't have a quick-hook mentality, but I do believe that coaches should be replaced as needed to improve the overall unit. I don't like to see head coaches keep below-average performers just for the sake of comfort. If you want a comfortable job, don't be in the NFL, you'll probably earn a lot less elsewhere, but the security should be better.

Moving a little off-topic, look how well San Francisco have managed coaches. They have hired several black coaches that have done well, got promoted to a higher position in another franchise - and SF have netted numerous good draft picks in return.

Edited January 20, 2023 by OneTwoSixFive

[vegas492]

Question for the anti-Gute guys....and I'm not judging at all, I get it.....

But let's say that Rodgers comes back and do creative accounting to bring most everyone back.  

And we get to the NFC Championship game...and lose.

Are you still going to be anti-Gute?  And anti the Rodgers contract?

Or is it Super Bowl victory or this is a complete failure?

I'm curious.  And I'm not judging at all.

[Sandy]

47 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

The other mortal sin is the ignoring of the WR position...in my book.

Then if you want to nit pick...the drafting of Love.  We know he picked him a year or two early.  Which should tell us how much they liked the talent that Jordan had coming out.  So maybe, just maybe, that is forgivable.

I agree. Gute is not without his warts. I do think if he pushed a little more we might have another SB in our trophy case. 

But the overall body of work has been excellent. Like you detailed, success in FA and the Draft is rare, and he's done it. Too many teams move on too quickly from GMs in particular, I'm glad he's here to learn from his errors.

For the record, his three biggest mistakes (IMO):

1. Rodgers'contract. Hard to imagine he'll have another opportunity to make a similar mistake. Just not a common situation to be in.

2. Lack of playmakerz. But for real, if we did get someone like OBJ like you said we could be singing a different tune..it's like we just couldn't go all the way in. I hope he learned the lesson now that he's seen the impact the loss of Adams had towards our diminished offense this season. Even fully developed, Watson will need to Robin to his Batman that Adams never got.

3. Third round drafting. You expect to get your role-playing starters there. We're barely getting quality special teamers.  Maybe it's been bad luck but he needs to learn how to approach that part of the draft. 

[PACKRULE]

3 hours ago, hitnhope said:

From reading these Gute posts you would actually think we were a good team instead of below .500.

His mistakes overshadow the few hits.  We are getting worse as a team under his watch.

Would Gute's record for his team be the indicator? If that is the case you are far from correct really. Became GM in what 2018 and broke a record for the team for most wins in a 3 season span.

Had a down year this year for various reasons one of which was as a result of huge continued success. 

Compared to other GM's who's drafting better in your estimation? Who's doing it better with the same draft slots and or money on the table.