MacReady Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 25 minutes ago, deathstar said: So QB1 refuses to sign an extension and holds out. Now what? Wait, QB1 Mahomes? Lol. Trade him. My whole thing is how many quarterbacks win on second contracts? Brady and Brady. Peyton didn’t win until his cap hit got so low the Broncos could afford Ward and all those other additions. Rodgers has sucked as far as win/loss in playoffs since his second contract. Hasn’t even gotten to the playoffs on his third. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathstar Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 40 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: Wait, QB1 Mahomes? Lol. Trade him. My whole thing is how many quarterbacks win on second contracts? Brady and Brady. Peyton didn’t win until his cap hit got so low the Broncos could afford Ward and all those other additions. Rodgers has sucked as far as win/loss in playoffs since his second contract. Hasn’t even gotten to the playoffs on his third. Ok so now you have a failed first round pick and no starting QB. What do you do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 @Outpost31 go back to playing Madden. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 21 minutes ago, deathstar said: Ok so now you have a failed first round pick and no starting QB. What do you do? Tank for a premium pick for your next shot at a QB. From a pure football standpoint, @Outpost31's idea is extremely logical. It's next to impossible to sustain success. Best bet is to pay a stud defense and get QB value for play, rinse and repeat. From an owners standpoint, they don't want the volatility. A consistent 10-6 playoff team is an easy business to run. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 31 minutes ago, deathstar said: Ok so now you have a failed first round pick and no starting QB. What do you do? Use the 5 first round picks you just got for Mahomes to get a new one. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 19 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: @Outpost31 go back to playing Madden. You know I’m right though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathstar Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 28 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: Use the 5 first round picks you just got for Mahomes to get a new one. Lol So we've got one wasted year where you draft a QB in the first round and your starting QB is pissed. We've got another wasted year where you have to trade the starting QB because he held out. Now you have a third wasted year where the QB you just took in the first sucks because that's what rookie QBs do. Boy this is sounding like a great strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 17 minutes ago, deathstar said: So we've got one wasted year where you draft a QB in the first round and your starting QB is pissed. We've got another wasted year where you have to trade the starting QB because he held out. Now you have a third wasted year where the QB you just took in the first sucks because that's what rookie QBs do. Boy this is sounding like a great strategy. You tell Mahomes you drafted him as an investment. That’s pretty obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 1 hour ago, incognito_man said: Tank for a premium pick for your next shot at a QB. From a pure football standpoint, @Outpost31's idea is extremely logical. It's next to impossible to sustain success. Best bet is to pay a stud defense and get QB value for play, rinse and repeat. From an owners standpoint, they don't want the volatility. A consistent 10-6 playoff team is an easy business to run. In a vacuum it's quite logical. It's just not a practical solution. #1 finding a QB worthy of winning the Super Bowl is not easy, #2 you couldn't tank for a QB as you'd be fired after that season for trading a guy who would consistently keep you in the playoffs. The fact that he acts like he's the only one who has solved this great mystery that the best chance to win a SB is to get a QB playing elite on a rookie deal is annoying. We all know. Just like we all accept that the GM is going to pay that QB because he likes having a job. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopackgonerd Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Outpost31 said: Use the 5 first round picks you just got for Mahomes to get a new one. Lol I'm not sure a team would trade their next 5 years worth of first round picks for Mahomes lol. Even if they had 2 in 1 and 3 more the next 3 after that. That team is suiciding basically unless they strike gold in FA and banking on Mahomes being super Mahomes which he has been human at times this year. Whats the most first round picks someone has traded at once? Has anyone cracked 3? Edited December 5, 2019 by Gopackgonerd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: In a vacuum it's quite logical. It's just not a practical solution. #1 finding a QB worthy of winning the Super Bowl is not easy, #2 you couldn't tank for a QB as you'd be fired after that season for trading a guy who would consistently keep you in the playoffs. The fact that he acts like he's the only one who has solved this great mystery that the best chance to win a SB is to get a QB playing elite on a rookie deal is annoying. We all know. Just like we all accept that the GM is going to pay that QB because he likes having a job. There is some validity to this from a financial standpoint by @Outpost31. You've got roughly 200 million to spend on players. Your top 51 players count against the cap according to what over the cap is showing. Since he's talking about the Chiefs, maybe not the best example since they've sort of gone all in already, but here are there numbers for 2021, when Mahomes has to be re-upped. Their top 8 players contracts are worth 121 million. That is on the books already for 2021. Mahomes is going to get 35-40 a year. Even if they massage the numbers and get his year one deal down to 25 million. They will have 9 players on the books for 146 million of their 200 million in cap space. That leaves 42 guys with 54 million to spend on them. I would say, not just a QB but anybody who thinks their value is over 20 million a year. You are better off trading them the year before their contract is up for (Myles Garrett, before he went mental) as many top picks as you can get. Let somebody else pay them. We are living that exact example in Chicago right now with Mack. They don't have enough cash left to get players in spots they need them. They are going to have to start cutting players to get those pieces. The Patriots have done this fiscal responsibility for 2 decades and nobody else seems to have caught on. Now, they also have a QB who takes a major hometown discount every contract, but Hoody is ruthless and smart when it comes to finances. Guys don't get paid in NE. They get traded for additional draft capital or allowed to walk in free agency and NE gets a comp pick. Often a 3rd round pick. Edited December 5, 2019 by Golfman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 18 minutes ago, Golfman said: There is some validity to this from a financial standpoint by @Outpost31. You've got roughly 200 million to spend on players. Your top 51 players count against the cap according to what over the cap is showing. Since he's talking about the Chiefs, maybe not the best example since they've sort of gone all in already, but here are there numbers for 2021, when Mahomes has to be re-upped. Their top 8 players contracts are worth 121 million. That is on the books already for 2021. Mahomes is going to get 35-40 a year. Even if they massage the numbers and get his year one deal down to 25 million. They will have 9 players on the books for 146 million of their 200 million in cap space. That leaves 42 guys with 54 million to spend on them. I would say, not just a QB but anybody who thinks their value is over 20 million a year. You are better off trading them the year before their contract is up for (Myles Garrett, before he went mental) as many top picks as you can get. Let somebody else pay them. We are living that exact example in Chicago right now with Mack. They don't have enough cash left to get players in spots they need them. They are going to have to start cutting players to get those pieces. The Patriots have done this fiscal responsibility for 2 decades and nobody else seems to have caught on. Now, they also have a QB who takes a major hometown discount every contract, but Hoody is ruthless and smart when it comes to finances. Guys don't get paid in NE. They get traded for additional draft capital or allowed to walk in free agency and NE gets a comp pick. Often a 3rd round pick. Are you probably better off in a situation with no consequences? Sure. You'd be fired for it in the real world though, which is why it's pointless for him to keep bringing it up. Works in Madden. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 Just now, Packerraymond said: Are you probably better off in a situation with no consequences? Sure. You'd be fired for it in the real world though, which is why it's pointless for him to keep bringing it up. Works in Madden. Works in NE too! The whole league is now talking about analytics. This is the next phase in my opinion. Look at the high end talent that was traded in the past two years: Mack, Clowney, Tunsil, Ramsey, Fitzpatrick, and L Williams come to mind immediately. I'm sure I"m forgetting others too. That never used to happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 54 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: In a vacuum it's quite logical. It's just not a practical solution. #1 finding a QB worthy of winning the Super Bowl is not easy, #2 you couldn't tank for a QB as you'd be fired after that season for trading a guy who would consistently keep you in the playoffs. The fact that he acts like he's the only one who has solved this great mystery that the best chance to win a SB is to get a QB playing elite on a rookie deal is annoying. We all know. Just like we all accept that the GM is going to pay that QB because he likes having a job. Quit saying that last part. 10 years ago nobody in their right mind would trade a top 5 EDGE. Gruden just did and all signs currently point to him having made the right choice. 30 years ago you couldn’t win without a great QB. Then Rypien happened. And Dilfer. And Foles and Flacco. The more often analytics are proven right, the more likely it’s going to happen. Might not be Mahomes, but it’s coming. Every NFL team is going to see what happens to the Rams and Eagles and that will be one more point in my argument’s favor. The Eagles should have traded Wentz and kept Foles. Especially considering Wentz and his weird people skills. You can say no G.M. would ever trade a QB like that, but 99% sure you dismissed the early rumor of Mack being traded and look how well that aged. You’d also have told me I’m unrealistic if I had said the Raiders should trade Mack for two first round picks and rebuild from scratch. “No G.M. would ever do it.” You can act like I don’t know what I’m talking about while also admitting everyone knows what I’m talking about is right but too risky to actually live by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 It will be interesting to see how some of the recent QB classes are handled by their respective teams. HOU with Watson KC with Mahomes Bal with Lamarr Each of those QB have shown the ability to be elite. Can they lead a team to the super bowl (and win it) is yet to be seen. But each of those teams will need to decide on the value of signing them to contracts that are going to be pushing $40M or more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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