Lodestar Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 38 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said: I don't think he does. Not even top 3 in Browns history in my lifetime. Johnny Manziel, Tim Couch, Deshone Kizer were all orders of magnitude worse. Don’t forget 40-year-old Brandon Weeden. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 22 minutes ago, Arthur Penske said: Cook is a huge part, but I really think many are underestimating the loss of Diggs too. That's my point. With Diggs gone, the offense REALLY goes through Cook. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Rainmaker90 said: I can’t entertain Kizer or Manziel. Kizer was a second round pick and Johnny was in the 20s. Baker was number 1 overall. That significance alone would make Baker a bigger bust. Couch, is an argument. I can’t say I remember him playing a snap. I say Baker would be high up there because of who he’s playing with. Odell Landry Hooper Chubb Hunt the offensive line should be closer to average . What bust had close to that talent to work with? I think that is more of a full organizational failure. Mayfield was 27:14, 3700 yards and 93.7 rating as a rookie. That is pretty damn good. Aaron Rodgers' first season as a starter was 28:13, 4000 yards and 93.8 rating. Both led their teams to 6 wins. Don't get me wrong, I am not betting on Mayfield to be some all-timer. But if you look at all-time busts like Jamarcus, or Leaf, or Couch, Mayfield has already surpassed them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 43 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said: I think that is more of a full organizational failure. Mayfield was 27:14, 3700 yards and 93.7 rating as a rookie. That is pretty damn good. Aaron Rodgers' first season as a starter was 28:13, 4000 yards and 93.8 rating. Both led their teams to 6 wins. Don't get me wrong, I am not betting on Mayfield to be some all-timer. But if you look at all-time busts like Jamarcus, or Leaf, or Couch, Mayfield has already surpassed them. Agreed. He's going to be a mouthy QB with mediocre numbers. He's cautious enough with the ball not to do something stupid IMHO, which is how he'll last in the league. You'll continue to hear tons of criticism from the pundits out there because Baker brings it upon himself, but barring injury or major regression, he'll have a Cam Newton-esque career. Nothing terrible despite some physical limitations, but nothing to write home about TBH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgbeethree Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Mayfield is hot garbage. Under 60% completion last year and an almost 1:1 TD to INT ratio. Plus the dudes such an entitled POS frat boy Dbag Russell Wilson isn't my most hated player in the NFL anymore. F that guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 10 minutes ago, wgbeethree said: Mayfield is hot garbage. Under 60% completion last year and an almost 1:1 TD to INT ratio. Plus the dudes such an entitled POS frat boy Dbag Russell Wilson isn't my most hated player in the NFL anymore. F that guy. This keeps Mayfield in my good graces, for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 12 minutes ago, wgbeethree said: Mayfield is hot garbage. Under 60% completion last year and an almost 1:1 TD to INT ratio. Plus the dudes such an entitled POS frat boy Dbag Russell Wilson isn't my most hated player in the NFL anymore. F that guy. I think you have to blame that on the instability around him more than anything. There were high expectations and that group couldn't live up to the hype because of the issues in the FO and the issues on the sidelines. He'll be up and down IMHO and will be more Andy Dalton than anything else come to think of it so I'll take back the Cam Newton comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainmaker90 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 2 hours ago, ThatJerkDave said: I think that is more of a full organizational failure. Mayfield was 27:14, 3700 yards and 93.7 rating as a rookie. That is pretty damn good. Aaron Rodgers' first season as a starter was 28:13, 4000 yards and 93.8 rating. Both led their teams to 6 wins. Don't get me wrong, I am not betting on Mayfield to be some all-timer. But if you look at all-time busts like Jamarcus, or Leaf, or Couch, Mayfield has already surpassed them. I know the line was very bad last year, but he shoulda played a lot better than he did . I do see your point with the rookie year of production for Baker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 41 minutes ago, Joe said: I think you have to blame that on the instability around him more than anything. There were high expectations and that group couldn't live up to the hype because of the issues in the FO and the issues on the sidelines. He'll be up and down IMHO and will be more Andy Dalton than anything else come to think of it so I'll take back the Cam Newton comparison. No. Flat out no. Cam's a weirdo, no doubt. But, he's also an MVP and at least he was a physical specimen at one time. Baker doesn't have half the athletic stuff that Cam had in his career...and may still have. I don't think his career will add up to Cam's. I like the Dalton career comp better in terms of stats, but not the person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrILL! Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) Elusive on & off the field. Time to move to California, Lynn. Edited June 11, 2020 by thrILL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 9 hours ago, thrILL! said: Elusive on & off the field. Time to move to California, Lynn. Not if he wants to keep those guns... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrILL! Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 6 hours ago, ThatJerkDave said: Not if he wants to keep those guns... Well his job is in Cali so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 The Athletic has a great interview up with Son of Bum, Wade Phillips He talks about some of the great players he coached including JJ Watt, Von Miller, Demarcus Ware, Aaron Donald couple of snippets here: J.J. Watt He was exceptional. He was so explosive. I couldn’t believe it, really. We saw him in college, drafted him, and they booed him when he came in because they never heard of a guy from Wisconsin. One of the things we noticed about him is that he had more passes broken up than their secondary. He naturally knocked the ball down. Just shows you the football player he is. We beat Cincinnati in a playoff game (in the 2011 season). He intercepted the ball with the quarterback like 4 yards from him. He caught it somehow and returned (it) for a touchdown and changed the whole game. He played five-tech mostly. We had him on the strong side because he could play so well and he could pass rush from anywhere. How does coaching defense change from 10 years ago to now ? The game always changes. Offenses always have the rules on their side. We went from run-and-shoot plays to zone read and (run-pass options). There’s always something different. When I first got in the NFL, everybody was running two backs and then somebody ran an ace formation with one back and two tight ends and the whole game changed. There’s always a change. Defense is recognition. I’ve coached in high school and college. I’ve seen the wishbone, wing T. Defense always has always having to make adjustments for what offenses are coming up with. Seems like something new — jet motion now. We didn’t see whole a lot of motion run 42 years ago when I started. Now, we see a whole lot of motion. Usually, defenses will catch up some because of recognition. We start recognizing the plays quicker. How do you see the 3-4 defense moving forward into this new era? We see colleges going to it. They’re playing a 3-3, 3-5. They are utilizing different skill sets but they are lining up three-man fronts. A lot of colleges are doing it. I don’t see it going away. Their game is a little different because of the hash marks. The NFL, way back, moved the hash marks closer so the quarterback could throw better to both sides of the field. What happened was, there’s such a wide side of the field in college that they can’t defend it. Colleges are more prolific offensively than pro teams are because of the wide side of the field, and college quarterbacks aren’t nearly as good as pro quarterbacks, but there is so much room out there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{Family Ghost} Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 Has he been hired as a consultant yet? I wouldn't mind the Packers tapping into that mind a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 On 6/9/2020 at 2:50 PM, vegas492 said: No. Flat out no. Cam's a weirdo, no doubt. But, he's also an MVP and at least he was a physical specimen at one time. Baker doesn't have half the athletic stuff that Cam had in his career...and may still have. I don't think his career will add up to Cam's. I like the Dalton career comp better in terms of stats, but not the person. I took away the Cam comparison once I thought of Dalton, but I must've put that in another thread. Numbers wise I think the two will be the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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