NFL News & Notes

[Eric dunn]

2 hours ago, vegas492 said:

K.  Let me paint a little picture for you.  It isn't as easy as saying Favre and Rodgers are the difference.

The difference is the front offices that acquired those two players.  Favre was a second round pick, who very well may have been getting released by Atlanta and our foolish front office went ahead and traded our first round pick, #19 overall, for said quarterback.  It took major cajones to roll the dice on that one.

Then there is Rodgers.  Taken when Favre was still playing at a very high level.  At pick number 24 in the draft.  We were "lucky"?  Heck no.  Thompson was smart.  I think the Vikings passed on Rodgers not once, but twice in that draft.  Thinking the Vikes GM took a WR named Williamson and a DE James.  True, Culpepper was around, but Favre was around and still that pick made sense.  Good GM's do things like that.

And here we are now.  Rodgers under contract and an MVP.  Yet we have a first round pick sitting there taking reps with our first team.  Another great front office move, that Rodgers is more or less emphasizing how great of a pick that was.  Without Love, we would be SOL.  

If you think it is lucky having back to back all time great QB's, I think you are going to hate how lucky we are 10 years from now.

So, it isn't as simple as getting lucky with two QB's.  You gotta have the front office looking ahead to keep things going.

Maybe you are doing that now with your other QB.

No need to paint any pictures. It’s clear to anyone that isn’t a Packer fan, that it’s lucky to acquire/draft back to back HOF QBs. Sure the front offices deserve credit for trading for Favre and selecting Rodgers when they did, the process is great. But to say that Green Bay knew after Favre’s rookie year with Atlanta that he was a future HOF’er is not true. Nobody knows those things, even the best scouts/GMs of all time. It’s a gamble, which is why I say luck is involved. Good process and even better result. Same with Rodgers, he slipped in that draft for reasons that 20 something other teams agreed with. The Vikings passing on him is a cheap shot from you, but that’s not the point here. SMART as you say, would have been knowing Rodgers was the man and trading up to get him. He fell into their laps and bravo to them for making the selection. But what if any one of those teams took him, you don’t think SF considered him? Probably. So that took some luck for Rodgers to slip that far considering he was a good prospect. Once again, process is great but it’s not like they were high enough on him to trade up for him. Plus after the fact, there was probably a less than 15% chance that a QB taken 20 or after would become a HOF QB. So your saying no luck involved at all. They scouted him, knew he would slip to them and knew he was a surefire HOFer. That is arrogance right there. For the last time I’m not questioning the scouting, the front office at the time, or the process. I’m saying that to have 2 HOF caliber QBs back to back, requires some sort of luck. If you don’t see that then that’s because you are biased, which seems to be the case. If you don’t agree with me, make a post in the NFL comparisons/General forum and see what people think outside of GB. 

[squire12]

14 minutes ago, Eric dunn said:

Yeah, they get credit. But it takes some luck to get back to back HOF QBs. It’s not a back handed compliment it’s the truth. 1st round QBs who aren’t top 10 picks don’t have a great % of chance to ever become a good QB, let alone HOF QBs. So trading for Favre was smart, but obviously nobody KNEW he would turn into the guy he did. So the process was great and the result turned out great. But to say that no luck is involved would seem to insinuate that the GB front office only scouts and drafts HOF QBs. Which isn’t reasonable. 

So do you attribute any good players that Minnesota drafted as being luck?

If not, why not?

If so, then it's all luck and you are arguing which GM/team/ fan base is the luckiest.

[Eric dunn]

2 hours ago, vegas492 said:

To be fair, he may not have known all that went into trading the 19th overall pick for a QB3 who very well may have been getting released by Atlanta.

Or that the Vikes passed on Rodgers not once, but twice.

My take is that it wasn't luck for those two players, it was smarts.  Wolf and TT outsmarted a lot of folks.  So far Gute is looking like a genius for taking Love.

Don’t question my knowledge of the game or what transpired because you think you know everything. I’m well aware of the Vikings passing on ARod. I wanted him! But at the time it made sense why they didn’t take him. Hindsight is obviously 20/20 but Culpepper at the time was our guy. 
 

I personally think it’s smart to constantly be open minded at the QB position when it comes to the draft, unless you have a top 5 guy. I want the Vikings to take one in the 1st almost every year, because I know the guy we have isn’t good enough to win a SB unless everything around him goes right. Not only the process of drafting a future QB but the advantage of having a rookie QB contract is really valuable. So it makes all kinds of sense. 
 

As far as Love, was it smart to draft him? Yeah, I think so. Planning ahead & looking at the big picture is obviously the wise thing to do. 

[Eric dunn]

10 minutes ago, squire12 said:

So do you attribute any good players that Minnesota drafted as being luck?

If not, why not?

If so, then it's all luck and you are arguing which GM/team/ fan base is the luckiest.

Of course, the draft is a gamble where we have seen freaks of nature bust and a slow skinny backup 6th round QB become the goat. Luck is involved no doubt about it. Is every team lucky on every pick that pans out? Absolutely not. But you’re not being reasonable at all. Of course scouts, gms are good at what they do and know what they are doing most of the time in scouting these players. 
 

You don’t get it. Was Justin Jefferson luck? Yeah, because the Eagles should have taken him it was a no brainer. So it was lucky that he fell to them and actually learned to play WR in the NFL right away. But the GM/scouts deserve credit for recognizing the talent and taking advantage of the opportunity to acquire him. Just like the packers deserve credit for drafting ARod & trading for Favre. But was luck involved? Of course. Two HOF QBs back to back. 

[Leader]

Alt Buffalo -   Beasley took to Twitter this afternoon to voice his disapproval of the NFL Players Association encouraging players to get the vaccine.

• Cole Beasley -  The players association is a joke. Call it something different. It’s not for the players. Everyone gives me the 98 percent of people who are vaccinated don’t get covid again. The odds of me getting in the NFL and playing for 10 years are lower than that and I’m here.

[squire12]

13 minutes ago, Eric dunn said:

Of course, the draft is a gamble where we have seen freaks of nature bust and a slow skinny backup 6th round QB become the goat. Luck is involved no doubt about it. Is every team lucky on every pick that pans out? Absolutely not. But you’re not being reasonable at all. Of course scouts, gms are good at what they do and know what they are doing most of the time in scouting these players. 
 

You don’t get it. Was Justin Jefferson luck? Yeah, because the Eagles should have taken him it was a no brainer. So it was lucky that he fell to them and actually learned to play WR in the NFL right away. But the GM/scouts deserve credit for recognizing the talent and taking advantage of the opportunity to acquire him. Just like the packers deserve credit for drafting ARod & trading for Favre. But was luck involved? Of course. Two HOF QBs back to back. 

so GB has been luckier that MIN.  seems a strange thing to be arguing about then

[coachbuns]

11 hours ago, squire12 said:

so GB has been luckier that MIN.  seems a strange thing to be arguing about then

Thinking he's bored on his Viking forum and likes to check things out on other sites.  Some like to see how the grass is greener on the other side of the fence.  Don't mind it but it gets redundant going back and forth who's the best team.  Just wait for the frickin season.

[vegas492]

14 hours ago, Eric dunn said:

I agree that the process is good. I don’t have any problem with it. Now I don’t think Love will be on Rodgers/Favre level. But the process itself is smart. 

None of us thought Rodgers would be as good as Favre either.  Big shoes to try to fill.

Being fair to Love, the shoes are now double the size because of following both Rodgers and Favre.

And still, in being fair, all Love has to do is win in the playoffs and actually beat a QB in the NFL Championship game who isn't second or third string.

[vegas492]

14 hours ago, Eric dunn said:

No need to paint any pictures. It’s clear to anyone that isn’t a Packer fan, that it’s lucky to acquire/draft back to back HOF QBs. Sure the front offices deserve credit for trading for Favre and selecting Rodgers when they did, the process is great. But to say that Green Bay knew after Favre’s rookie year with Atlanta that he was a future HOF’er is not true. Nobody knows those things, even the best scouts/GMs of all time.

Yah, I can stop yah right here.  You don't know that full Favre/Wolf story and you are just flat out wrong.

Just like I'd be if I were trying to talk about something from Vikings history, maybe how the Purple People Eaters were overrated or something ridiculous like that.  (Which, they were not, just making a point.)

Any time that Ron Wolf talked about Favre, he said that he viewed Favre as the best QB in that draft class.  Wolf knew that he was going to be great.  There was no luck involved in it.  Wolf knew.  If Wolf didn't know, he would have surrendered a lesser draft pick.  Maybe Wolf was overly arrogant regarding his opinion.  Typically those high end front office guys who had been around Parcells/LT and other legends are, and that is why when they see talent, they go get talent.

Moving to Rodgers?  Maybe I can agree about some "luck".  But, we are talking about a QB who was in the running as the #1 overall draft pick going into that draft.  Again, not a lot of luck.  All it would have taken for someone to get Rodgers was the stones between their legs to draft a franchise QB when there was already a good QB on the roster.   It wasn't luck, it was front office smarts.  We had a legend on the roster already, and we had the stones to go get another one.

[vegas492]

14 hours ago, Eric dunn said:

You don’t get it. Was Justin Jefferson luck? Yeah, because the Eagles should have taken him it was a no brainer. So it was lucky that he fell to them and actually learned to play WR in the NFL right away. But the GM/scouts deserve credit for recognizing the talent and taking advantage of the opportunity to acquire him. Just like the packers deserve credit for drafting ARod & trading for Favre. But was luck involved? Of course. Two HOF QBs back to back. 

The only reason you were "lucky" to get Jefferson is because the Eagles were stupid and didn't want his skillset over the skillset of a guy that can run fast.

Jefferson was a pro-ready prospect.  You didn't lucky that he actually panned out in year one, you got lucky in the fact that the Eagles don't really know how to draft WR's.

Now, if we are talking about what makes a good GM and what makes a great GM, well.....I'm of the opinion that a WR in the first round is not a good investment of draft capital.  But, same breath, that's more for the top end of round one.  Personally I saw great value at pick #18 for Jefferson.  Troy Williamson?  Naw.  Cordarelle Patterson?  Naw.  The key is finding those pro-ready WR's, not projects.  

[Isherwood]

1 hour ago, vegas492 said:

The only reason you were "lucky" to get Jefferson is because the Eagles were stupid and didn't want his skillset over the skillset of a guy that can run fast.

Jefferson was a pro-ready prospect.  You didn't lucky that he actually panned out in year one, you got lucky in the fact that the Eagles don't really know how to draft WR's.

Now, if we are talking about what makes a good GM and what makes a great GM, well.....I'm of the opinion that a WR in the first round is not a good investment of draft capital.  But, same breath, that's more for the top end of round one.  Personally I saw great value at pick #18 for Jefferson.  Troy Williamson?  Naw.  Cordarelle Patterson?  Naw.  The key is finding those pro-ready WR's, not projects.  

The Vikings virtual war room laughing when the Eagles made their pick was pretty good. No idea what the Eagles were doing. Justin Jefferson felt like a sure thing to me, and I'm just some country dumbass! 

[vegas492]

17 minutes ago, Isherwood said:

The Vikings virtual war room laughing when the Eagles made their pick was pretty good. No idea what the Eagles were doing. Justin Jefferson felt like a sure thing to me, and I'm just some country dumbass! 

They fell in love with a 40 time.  But yah, that was a great clip.

[Refugee]

2 hours ago, Isherwood said:

The Vikings virtual war room laughing when the Eagles made their pick was pretty good. No idea what the Eagles were doing. Justin Jefferson felt like a sure thing to me, and I'm just some country dumbass! 

Yeah I don’t know jack about college ball but watched him and he can do everything except maybe take 1st at a track meet. Has some Greg Jennings smoothness but better build and shows hands that can’t be taught. We heard GB was interested and I would hope so but we could not move up far enough to get him. One of the many reasons besides the obvious that I hope Love turns into a quality starter is so we can still say we got the better pick over our rivals that draft. 

[vegas492]

2 minutes ago, Refugee said:

Yeah I don’t know jack about college ball but watched him and he can do everything except maybe take 1st at a track meet. Has some Greg Jennings smoothness but better build and shows hands that can’t be taught. We heard GB was interested and I would hope so but we could not move up far enough to get him. One of the many reasons besides the obvious that I hope Love turns into a quality starter is so we can still say we got the better pick over our rivals that draft. 

You really don't have to wait.

The Vikes passed on Rodgers twice for Williamson and James.  Twice.

[Refugee]

Just now, vegas492 said:

You really don't have to wait.

The Vikes passed on Rodgers twice for Williamson and James.  Twice.

Don’t think it doesn’t bring a smile to my face every time he beats them. Or the year the Bears taking Trubs in a great year for QB,  or any other year for QB (they may have finally gotten that one right, but I’ll hope for continued incompetence and bad luck).  But I want to continually out play, out class and out smart Min.  They hate us so much, I love it.