Norm Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Joe said: Still, Lambeau played for Notre Dame which is impressive despite the time in which he was there. It's also a pretty weak argument if someone says he was only successful because of his high football IQ making up for a lack of athleticism; that argument is made for so many above average or excellent athletes today. We tend to measure 40 times as a precursor to success(yeah, I'm guilty of that too from time to time), but then you look at Cooper Kupp and Wes Welker who have all been quite productive despite a 40 time that's been a bit slower than desired; Jerry Rice ran a 4.62 FWIW. Then consider how far strength and conditioning programs have come since the time of Lambeau; perhaps there was something Lambeau was leaving on the field that could've been unlocked by a modern strength and conditioning program. JMO I feel like you're taking this kinda personal lol. It's why I rarely bring this kind of stuff up. There's an all time best Packer from the past that I think is overrated as all **** but bringing it up, (to people who have never seen him even play a down), collectively sets all their hair on fire at once. Going to ND in itself isn't that important to me but it looks like "he made varsity as a frosh at HB" I believe I saw this morning. That's pretty interesting. I never saw the words high IQ or anything like that. It was just it seemed like this Summary of him while playing: great athlete for his time Summary of him while coaching: he was a good football player but mostly because of his knowledge of the game and his intelligence. I'm sure I read all this in books or possibly in since docu but that's always felt like the narrative. So I've just always wondered, I'm sure like most things it's in the middle. He was probably good for his time as a pro but not this jaw dropping great like Hutson, like we talked about. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bad Example Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 16 hours ago, Joe said: Still, Lambeau played for Notre Dame which is impressive despite the time in which he was there. It's also a pretty weak argument if someone says he was only successful because of his high football IQ making up for a lack of athleticism; that argument is made for so many above average or excellent athletes today. We tend to measure 40 times as a precursor to success(yeah, I'm guilty of that too from time to time), but then you look at Cooper Kupp and Wes Welker who have all been quite productive despite a 40 time that's been a bit slower than desired; Jerry Rice ran a 4.62 FWIW. Then consider how far strength and conditioning programs have come since the time of Lambeau; perhaps there was something Lambeau was leaving on the field that could've been unlocked by a modern strength and conditioning program. JMO Successful QBs like Montana and Brees are all-timers despite not having all the measurables (both have less-than-ideal size and arm strength). From what I could gather, GB annually led the league in TD pass with about twice what other teams managed, and Lambeau was the primary (or at worst 1b) passer on the team, so he probably ranked among league leaders in passing tds (and one assumes, yardage though that wasn't really tracked) for his playing career. But that doesn't tell us if he was a Steve Young (checks every box of physically desired traits) or more of a Brees/Montana type, who was still a good athlete but got by more on smarts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 19 hours ago, Norm said: I feel like you're taking this kinda personal lol. Not at all, I love the topic actually so I'm sorry that deep interest comes off as personal. I'd rather discuss this kind of stuff than talk about how Amari Rodgers may have chipped a nail in practice. 4 hours ago, Mr Bad Example said: Successful QBs like Montana and Brees are all-timers despite not having all the measurables (both have less-than-ideal size and arm strength). From what I could gather, GB annually led the league in TD pass with about twice what other teams managed, and Lambeau was the primary (or at worst 1b) passer on the team, so he probably ranked among league leaders in passing tds (and one assumes, yardage though that wasn't really tracked) for his playing career. But that doesn't tell us if he was a Steve Young (checks every box of physically desired traits) or more of a Brees/Montana type, who was still a good athlete but got by more on smarts. Throw Brady and Russell Wilson into that mix as well; it was my entire point, especially when it comes to QB's. We don't view the Manning brothers as mobile as well. As for Lambeau, you have to wonder if his stats are a product of what football looked like at the time. For example, John Elway and Eli Manning had careers of equal length at two different periods of time yet Elway's TD/INT numbers are 300/226 and he was a sure-fire HOF'er. Manning's TD/INT numbers are 366/244 and we're not sure whether he's a HOF'er or not despite having as many SB's as Elway and comparable playoff numbers despite fewer games played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bad Example Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 To clarify, I don't think Brees/Montana/Brady are poor athletes by any stretch (I think Wilson has every attribute you'd want except for height, and he may have finally broken that wall down). A lot of times people get wow'ed by an athletes speed, size, strength (or combination thereof) and sort of lose sight of the fact that many/most successful athletes are physical freaks and more that they have great intangibles + "enough" measurables. Everyone wants that 4.15 speed-having raw, lower-level prospect at WR and ignores that someone who checks every box but "only" runs a 4.5 is probably going to be the better pro. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 I have this on at work but can't hear over the AC but they're talking about Curly right now about half way through. I'll have to check it out again later (probably have seen this though) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 22 hours ago, Norm said: I feel like you're taking this kinda personal lol. It's why I rarely bring this kind of stuff up. There's an all time best Packer from the past that I think is overrated as all **** but bringing it up, (to people who have never seen him even play a down), collectively sets all their hair on fire at once. Going to ND in itself isn't that important to me but it looks like "he made varsity as a frosh at HB" I believe I saw this morning. That's pretty interesting. I never saw the words high IQ or anything like that. It was just it seemed like this Summary of him while playing: great athlete for his time Summary of him while coaching: he was a good football player but mostly because of his knowledge of the game and his intelligence. I'm sure I read all this in books or possibly in since docu but that's always felt like the narrative. So I've just always wondered, I'm sure like most things it's in the middle. He was probably good for his time as a pro but not this jaw dropping great like Hutson, like we talked about. Just say Nitschke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 4 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Just say Nitschke He was pretty good until Jaws broke his ******* neck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 (edited) 49 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Just say Nitschke Lol but I actually don't, legitimately, want to get into it. Edited July 6, 2021 by Norm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 Nietzsche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bad Example Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 7 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Just say Nitschke Nitschke was a lesser LB than the criminally underrated Dave Robinson (weird to say that about a HoFer) but he was a far better player than Hornung, whose presence in the HoF baffles me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 15 hours ago, Mr Bad Example said: Nitschke was a lesser LB than the criminally underrated Dave Robinson (weird to say that about a HoFer) but he was a far better player than Hornung, whose presence in the HoF baffles me. I think you have to go back to the early days of the HOF and what you needed to do to get in. There are so many pre-1950's players in virtually every HOF that make you scratch your head. IMO, part of Hornung getting in was the hype train he generated at ND, winning a Heisman, being dubbed The Golden Boy, and then becoming a major part of the best dynasty in football(at least at the time) not to mention he played a glitzy position. On 7/6/2021 at 1:03 PM, Mr Bad Example said: To clarify, I don't think Brees/Montana/Brady are poor athletes by any stretch (I think Wilson has every attribute you'd want except for height, and he may have finally broken that wall down). A lot of times people get wow'ed by an athletes speed, size, strength (or combination thereof) and sort of lose sight of the fact that many/most successful athletes are physical freaks and more that they have great intangibles + "enough" measurables. Everyone wants that 4.15 speed-having raw, lower-level prospect at WR and ignores that someone who checks every box but "only" runs a 4.5 is probably going to be the better pro. No need to clarify. We got the point and agree! Side note: anyone else notice that 4.4 40's are becoming more common and the 4.3's are what everyone pines for? IIRC, Adams' 4.51 was one of the faster WR times in that draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 28 minutes ago, Joe said: Hornung getting in was the hype train he generated at ND, winning a Heisman, being dubbed The Golden Boy, and then becoming a major part of the best dynasty in football(at least at the time) not to mention he played a glitzy position. Bingo. He is in a lot on popularity, it's kind of like when people ***** and moan about Namath. But don't even get me started there, Namath HAS to be in the HOF. But googling stats is king now.. Nothing else matters... NERDZZZZZZZ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted July 8, 2021 Author Share Posted July 8, 2021 Adam Schefter - NFL and Twitter announced a multi-year partnership extension that will include expanded engagement formats and a full-season commitment to produce exclusive content on Twitter Spaces, Twitter's new live audio feature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted July 12, 2021 Author Share Posted July 12, 2021 PFT - A good agent not only negotiates a player’s contract. A good agent also helps a player negotiate his life. If Lamar Jackson currently had a good agent, Lamar would be receiving a phone call with a very clear and direct message: Stop playing defensive back or receiver on an asphalt basketball court. A video has emerged of Jackson doing both. And while he wasn’t injured while doing either, there’s simply no reason to take that risk while on the brink of signing a life-changing contract with the Ravens. A broken ankle, torn ACL, ruptured, Achilles’ tendon, or other similar injury would end those talks, immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted July 12, 2021 Author Share Posted July 12, 2021 Zach A. Jacobson - Vikings are the best team in the NFC North regardless of what Aaron Rodgers decides. Ross Uglem - Pretty standard stuff. Folks obsess about Minnesota’s strong “roster” filled with guys they liked in the pre draft process (few draft to consensus like Spielman) and all of a sudden you have a front office person basically in charge for 15 years with three playoff wins. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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