Leader Posted July 26, 2021 Author Share Posted July 26, 2021 Just now, gopackgo972 said: Sounds like he should’ve gotten that 3rd jab. They're not doing boosters yet. Perhaps in the fall. Probably depends on the overall vax rate in the country and/or region. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 Just gonna say, (and I don't care where anyone is on the vax issue) very happy that I got mine. I didn't care much for the condescending tone in the thread when I mentioned that I was unvaccinated, it did make me do enough research and feel comfortable with my personal decision. I will get boosters when/if needed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Guy Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 23 minutes ago, vegas492 said: Just gonna say, (and I don't care where anyone is on the vax issue) very happy that I got mine. I didn't care much for the condescending tone in the thread when I mentioned that I was unvaccinated, it did make me do enough research and feel comfortable with my personal decision. I will get boosters when/if needed. Exactly how those decisions should be made. You do your own research and make the best decision for you and your family! Couldn't agree with you more! If there is one thing we have too much of is group think. Not enough critical thinking going on IMO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 17 minutes ago, Old Guy said: If there is one thing we have too much of is group think. Not enough critical thinking going on IMO! This is universally true. HOWEVER, in the case of vaccination we luckily had a LOT of critical thinking performed by the experts who then informed the rest of us what the best course of action is. I 100% agree everyone should do their own research. The trouble lies when people cling to the mountains of unsubstantiated information over the expert peer-reviewed data when it supports the answer they prefer for non-scientifically sound reasons. Not accusing you (or vegas) of this - but this premonition for Asimov rings true here: "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." There is perhaps no better example of this coming to life than the Covid vaccine. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Guy Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 13 minutes ago, incognito_man said: This is universally true. HOWEVER, in the case of vaccination we luckily had a LOT of critical thinking performed by the experts who then informed the rest of us what the best course of action is. I 100% agree everyone should do their own research. The trouble lies when people cling to the mountains of unsubstantiated information over the expert peer-reviewed data when it supports the answer they prefer for non-scientifically sound reasons. Not accusing you (or vegas) of this - but this premonition for Asimov rings true here: "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." There is perhaps no better example of this coming to life than the Covid vaccine. Interesting comments! The problem with you grouping everybody who is not getting the vaccine into the 'uninformed' is none of these vaccines are FDA approved as of yet. That actually matters. This isn't like the polio vaccine where we have years of evidence it works. I have no problem with people who have chosen the wait and see approach. I'm not going to judge those who have gotten one and those who have not. By the way, we do not live in a democracy! I won't get into the rest of it because it leads down a rat hole I do not care to go down. The freedom of choice does and should exist for all! Even if you don't think it should! FYI, I've gotten my two pokes! Not for your safety or anyone else's as I'm not responsible for that! BTW, if the vaccine is so good and you've gotten it what are you worried about? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibrett15 Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 this place is a pretty big yikes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 22 minutes ago, incognito_man said: This is universally true. HOWEVER, in the case of vaccination we luckily had a LOT of critical thinking performed by the experts who then informed the rest of us what the best course of action is. I 100% agree everyone should do their own research. The trouble lies when people cling to the mountains of unsubstantiated information over the expert peer-reviewed data when it supports the answer they prefer for non-scientifically sound reasons. Not accusing you (or vegas) of this - but this premonition for Asimov rings true here: "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." There is perhaps no better example of this coming to life than the Covid vaccine. K. So.... In my case, and only my case, I didn't want the vaccine because of the not approved status of the FDA. I wasn't against the vaccine, I just didn't want to do it at that particular time. I'd been around plenty of people with COVID, and I had not gotten it, multiple tests. So for me, I thought I was fine. But the more I thought about it, the more I knew that I did not want to be "that guy" who carries it to another person. Especially my loved ones. And I was going to be around plenty of vulnerable and loved people very soon. (Awesome celebration of life for my father, btw....) And yeah, I saw how effective the vaccine was, I knew about the possible side effects and I knew of a few folks who had pretty MAJOR side effects. Also, heard that the vaccine actually has a tracker in it so the government knows where I am and what I'm doing at all times (lol). Figured if the government really wanted to follow my life, they'd get bored quickly. So I get where some NFL players are coming from, I was there. But it is for a good greater than yourself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted July 26, 2021 Author Share Posted July 26, 2021 We're getting there......slow but sure..... 60%: The share of all American adults at least 18 years of age who are fully vaccinated, according to the CDC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 12 minutes ago, Old Guy said: Interesting comments! The problem with you grouping everybody who is not getting the vaccine into the 'uninformed' is none of these vaccines are FDA approved as of yet. That actually matters. This isn't like the polio vaccine where we have years of evidence it works. I have no problem with people who have chosen the wait and see approach. I'm not going to judge those who have gotten one and those who have not. By the way, we do not live in a democracy! I won't get into the rest of it because it leads down a rat hole I do not care to go down. The freedom of choice does and should exist for all! Even if you don't think it should! FYI, I've gotten my two pokes! Not for your safety or anyone else's as I'm not responsible for that! BTW, if the vaccine is so good and you've gotten it what are you worried about? oh I'm 100% NOT saying that anyone who doesn't get it is "uninformed". There are plenty of informed people who can't (and don't) get it for legitimate medical reasons. Those people are (I'm sure) deeply informed. Moreover, there are two different types of "ignorances" (generally and here). The first type is general apathy. Perhaps the pandemic doesn't personally affect them, or they are not particularly motivated to "understand" it - BUT, if/when they do, they recognize the overwhelming reasons TO get vaccinated (and they do). The second group is the real problem: those who are willfully and/or deceitfully uninformed. They cling to misinformation because of groupthink and membership to a group they want to identify with. They willfully dismiss the overwhelming evidence. It also does not "matter" that it is not fully FDA approved (according to the experts). So, this is a great example of willful ignorance. If the experts are telling us to get vaccinated regardless, it is irrational to not get vaccinated because they lack "full" FDA approval. The literal experts recommend everyone who can safely get vaccinated do so. The experts are doing it themselves. Using "full" FDA approval as a reason NOT to is pretty nonsensical if you think about it...people are waiting for an agency they admittedly don't "trust" to "officially" approve something before they use it? That doesn't make any sense. One either believes the experts (and get vaccinated if they safely can) or they think their opinion is superior to the experts' and choose not to. It's really that simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 4 minutes ago, Leader said: We're getting there......slow but sure..... 60%: The share of all American adults at least 18 years of age who are fully vaccinated, according to the CDC. I went to the Waukesha Fair this past weekend. They have a booth set up for free vaccinations. Walked around the fair for about 4 hours, which if you know that fair is A LOT of laps! Didn't see one person at the booth. It closed early. The only other place as empty was the Mad Town remodeler that was there literally begging anyone to come talk to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted July 26, 2021 Author Share Posted July 26, 2021 Just now, vegas492 said: I went to the Waukesha Fair this past weekend. They have a booth set up for free vaccinations. Walked around the fair for about 4 hours, which if you know that fair is A LOT of laps! Didn't see one person at the booth. It closed early. The only other place as empty was the Mad Town remodeler that was there literally begging anyone to come talk to him. Not sure how to evaluate that other than to hope that people are getting their vaccinations in other ways. We want things to be "normal" again? We're gonna have to put this virus in the rear view mirror and that wont happen any other way than thru vaccinations - then, eventually enhanced/better boosters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 17 minutes ago, vegas492 said: K. So.... In my case, and only my case, I didn't want the vaccine because of the not approved status of the FDA. I wasn't against the vaccine, I just didn't want to do it at that particular time. I'd been around plenty of people with COVID, and I had not gotten it, multiple tests. So for me, I thought I was fine. But the more I thought about it, the more I knew that I did not want to be "that guy" who carries it to another person. Especially my loved ones. And I was going to be around plenty of vulnerable and loved people very soon. (Awesome celebration of life for my father, btw....) And yeah, I saw how effective the vaccine was, I knew about the possible side effects and I knew of a few folks who had pretty MAJOR side effects. Also, heard that the vaccine actually has a tracker in it so the government knows where I am and what I'm doing at all times (lol). Figured if the government really wanted to follow my life, they'd get bored quickly. So I get where some NFL players are coming from, I was there. But it is for a good greater than yourself. Yes, I get it. I understand initial hesitancy and I understand general apathy. It's unfortunate how the messaging got so badly bastardized in this country. I recognize the intent of powerful people to generate this divisive condition we are now in. I don't fully blame those people who choose not to get vaccinated. I suspect MANY of them would if certain messaging had been different (and literally everything else being equal). It's really, really unfortunate that this situation has exacerbated anti-science. And it's so unnecessary. I suspect the frustration people encounter is largely due to that more than anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted July 26, 2021 Author Share Posted July 26, 2021 Ross Tucker - Figured out how to fix everything at same time: Texans trade Deshaun Watson to the Packers for Aaron Rodgers. Joe Banner - Then Rogers will get to see what a bad front office looks like. He seems confused on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Guy Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 32 minutes ago, incognito_man said: oh I'm 100% NOT saying that anyone who doesn't get it is "uninformed". There are plenty of informed people who can't (and don't) get it for legitimate medical reasons. Those people are (I'm sure) deeply informed. Moreover, there are two different types of "ignorances" (generally and here). The first type is general apathy. Perhaps the pandemic doesn't personally affect them, or they are not particularly motivated to "understand" it - BUT, if/when they do, they recognize the overwhelming reasons TO get vaccinated (and they do). The second group is the real problem: those who are willfully and/or deceitfully uninformed. They cling to misinformation because of groupthink and membership to a group they want to identify with. They willfully dismiss the overwhelming evidence. It also does not "matter" that it is not fully FDA approved (according to the experts). So, this is a great example of willful ignorance. If the experts are telling us to get vaccinated regardless, it is irrational to not get vaccinated because they lack "full" FDA approval. The literal experts recommend everyone who can safely get vaccinated do so. The experts are doing it themselves. Using "full" FDA approval as a reason NOT to is pretty nonsensical if you think about it...people are waiting for an agency they admittedly don't "trust" to "officially" approve something before they use it? That doesn't make any sense. One either believes the experts (and get vaccinated if they safely can) or they think their opinion is superior to the experts' and choose not to. It's really that simp There are people suffering from side affects to some of these vaccinations or do you not believe that? We don't know if those side affects will be short or long-term. So any expert telling you there are no risks is lying. Kind of off the subject but on May 5th the CDC very quietly removed from their webpage, "vaccines do not cause autism," from their autism and vaccines webpage. I'm not saying they do or they don't I don't know the answer, but one could surmise neither does the CDC know for sure any longer. Some of these things take years, even decades to figure out. There is a saying, 'sometimes caution is the better part of valor!' I'm not going to stand in judgement of anybody who decided to get the vaccine, I did, or anybody who didn't regardless of their reasoning. It is an individual choice IMO, which I will stand by. Anyway, have a great rest of your day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 3 minutes ago, Old Guy said: Kind of off the subject but on May 5th the CDC very quietly removed from their webpage, "vaccines do not cause autism," from their autism and vaccines webpage. I'm not saying they do or they don't I don't know the answer, but one could surmise neither does the CDC know for sure any longer. Some of these things take years, even decades to figure out. None of this is true. This is a great example of my point. For some reason, you believe the CDC removed this from their website. Instead of actually looking yourself, you believed something you read somewhere. And it is 100% false. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/autism.html Literal big bold letters "Vaccines do not cause autism" followed by more big bold letters "Vaccine ingredients do not cause autism" And it's right there, on the exact page you claimed it was removed from. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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