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41 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

Hey that's great! I'd like to point out two things. The first is my original point that you are quoting that I clarified previously I'd like to restate in case it was missed:

(1) What's with this obsession and feigned outrage over one ever-so-slightly incorrect fact whose correction has absolutely zero effect on the ultimate point of the thought anyway?

Point remains: it's ridiculous to compare someone making fun of you on the internet about your faith of choice to systemic economic repression based on birth characteristics

(2) The second is that the length of time in "any" education program is not "equally qualified". I have no idea where your degrees are from, but it goes without saying that an MBA from the University of Phoenix is NOT "equal" to an MD from Johns Hopkins. Regardless of how long it took each person to achieve it.

I didn't even read the orginal quote of yours or comment on it. The gender pay gap one just rustles my jimmies because it's based on so much false information, especially the whole 77 cents "fact" of it that is preached like gospel. A gap does exist still, just not to the extent that some use it to for political purposes . Things like career/feild choice need to be taken into consideration. That was the point. 

 

Edited by Arthur Penske
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Just now, Arthur Penske said:

I didn't even read the orginal quote of yours or comment on it. The gender pay gap one just rustles my jimmies because it's based on so much false information, especially the whoel 77 cents fact of it. A gap does exist still, just not to the extent that some use it to for political purposes . Things like career/feild choice need to be taken into consideration. That was the point. 

 

Unless you believe that the entire population of women (or pick your disadvantaged group of choice) are collectively less "qualified", the opportunity gap is the only gap that matters because it reflects the true reality of the systemic issue.

Don't really care if your jimmies get rustled by me bringing light to it; I'm sure a lot of jimmies of those in the advantaged group get rustled by the reality.

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4 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

Unless you believe that the entire population of women (or pick your disadvantaged group of choice) are collectively less "qualified", the opportunity gap is the only gap that matters because it reflects the true reality of the systemic issue.

Don't really care if your jimmies get rustled by me bringing light to it; I'm sure a lot of jimmies of those in the advantaged group get rustled by the reality.

Using the stats from the outcome gap and automatically assuming it is because of an opportunity gap is a dubious conclusion. Also, saying one group is “equally qualified” by simply existing is equally dubious. 

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7 minutes ago, mikebpackfan said:

Using the stats from the outcome gap and automatically assuming it is because of an opportunity gap is a dubious conclusion. Also, saying one group is “equally qualified” by simply existing is equally dubious. 

It is not my term. The leader in modern compensation data and software defines the term "opportunity gap" and I simply borrowed from them.

https://www.payscale.com/data/gender-pay-gap

https://apnews.com/press-release/pr-globenewswire/11d8ed1f9f1b477cd4c12f94fc490c77

I also never said that one group is equally qualified, I asked if another poster felt that collectively they are not. 

Again, the overall larger point remains: it's ridiculous to compare someone making fun of you on the internet about your faith of choice to systemic economic repression based on birth characteristics

I don't really care to discuss the intricacies of various pay gap definitions further. It's beyond obvious they exist. And they exist due to systemic economic factors based on birth characteristics. Further distillation is simply missing the forest for the trees. It's a fine discussion to have if searching for solutions, but it's a pointless discussion to have to argue semantics.

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25 minutes ago, Arthur Penske said:

I didn't even read the orginal quote of yours or comment on it. The gender pay gap one just rustles my jimmies because it's based on so much false information, especially the whole 77 cents "fact" of it that is preached like gospel. A gap does exist still, just not to the extent that some use it to for political purposes . Things like career/feild choice need to be taken into consideration. That was the point. 

 

It still exists, it's just not as bad as they say.

Signed, Holocaust Deniers

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35 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

Unless you believe that the entire population of women (or pick your disadvantaged group of choice) are collectively less "qualified", the opportunity gap is the only gap that matters because it reflects the true reality of the systemic issue.

Don't really care if your jimmies get rustled by me bringing light to it; I'm sure a lot of jimmies of those in the advantaged group get rustled by the reality.

Thank god. I was trying to get a break at work to make this point. 

When you break down his logic, that shouldn't create a gap between genders unless somehow we're pretending that only women are taking these lesser jobs on purpose or getting lesser education or whatever he's saying. Wouldn't men do that to? Are they immune from that? Why does that create a gender gap, I get the logic of how it can affect salaries, but not the gap between men and women. Unless there's some inherent flaw they think women have, which kind of starts to prove the entire point.

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Just now, Norm said:

Thank god. I was trying to get a break at work to make this point. 

When you break down his logic, that shouldn't create a gap between genders unless somehow we're pretending that only women are taking these lesser jobs on purpose or getting lesser education or whatever he's saying. Wouldn't men do that to? Are they immune from that? Why does that create a gender gap, I get the logic of how it can affect salaries, but not the gap between men and women. Unless there's some inherent flaw they think women have, which kind of starts to prove the entire point.

There are plenty of reasons for the gap.  Some have to do with motherhood.  Some to do with the fact that women do not prioritize pay when seeking employment (I’ve seen some surveys indicate men on average put it as priority 1 while women put it at 5). Some to do with the fact that dangerous (and therefore higher paying) jobs are done mostly by men. Some, just to job preference (ie, teaching field are predominantly female and tend toward lower pay).  Some do with the fact that women tend to be less aggressive when pursuing pay raises (which could easily explain the meager 2¢ same job to same job discrepancy). 
 

So, there are lots of factors, probably only one of which requires much “systemic” change, and that being the US could do a better job at dealing with maternity leave. 

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40 minutes ago, mikebpackfan said:

There are plenty of reasons for the gap.  Some have to do with motherhood.  Some to do with the fact that women do not prioritize pay when seeking employment (I’ve seen some surveys indicate men on average put it as priority 1 while women put it at 5). Some to do with the fact that dangerous (and therefore higher paying) jobs are done mostly by men. Some, just to job preference (ie, teaching field are predominantly female and tend toward lower pay).  Some do with the fact that women tend to be less aggressive when pursuing pay raises (which could easily explain the meager 2¢ same job to same job discrepancy). 
 

So, there are lots of factors, probably only one of which requires much “systemic” change, and that being the US could do a better job at dealing with maternity leave. 

All of those things are systemic

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