Vixen Twins watch Wild Wolves and Loony Lynx (MN Sports Thread)

[JDBrocks]

48 minutes ago, SemperFeist said:

It’s a coach’s job to know how to motivate their players. If the only way you know how to “coach” is to yell and scream, even when it’s apparent that it’s not working, if you can’t adapt your approach to the players on your team, you are simply not a good coach.

And it’s not just a Wiggins thing. Far too often Towns, Teague, and Butler have all come out flat and uninspiring.

So the players aren't accountable? That's BS. I'm not saying that Thibs shouldn't change at all, but effort on a night to night basis is on the players. When people can't get up and get motivated to do their job that says way more about the employee than it does about the boss. We talk about Orlando Brown's lack of motivation during the biggest job interview of his life while coaches are yelling at him, why doesn't that apply to a guy that just made over 100 million dollars and still can't perform?

[JDBrocks]

This is pretty wild to me. In the NBA defense is about effort. Guys like Wiggins and KAT are stand outs athletically in a pool of individuals that are already the elite of the elite in terms of physical ability. There is no good reason that Wiggins and KAT can't be plus or even dominant defenders other than drive/want to. That isn't on Thibs.

[SemperFeist]

Thibs isn’t a hard-nosed coach. He’s a hard-headed coach. 

Zimmer demands a lot from his players, but he’s shown time and time again that he can adapt to his players and put them in the best position to succeed. That’s why they’d run through a wall for him. 

Thibs only knows one approach, and when it doesn’t work, he only knows how to dig in deeper and yell louder. His players have failed to respond to him, and he’s failed to reach them. 

And you're right, defense in basketball is an effort thing, and if we were only talking about one player showing a lack of drive or a lack of effort, then I’d agree and put it on the player moreso than the coach. But it’s not just one player. It’s seemingly the entire team, minus maybe one player in Butler. When the entire team isn’t responding to the coach, it’s on the coach.  

Edited April 10, 2018 by SemperFeist

[RpMc]

5 minutes ago, JDBrocks said:

This is pretty wild to me. In the NBA defense is about effort. Guys like Wiggins and KAT are stand outs athletically in a pool of individuals that are already the elite of the elite in terms of physical ability. There is no good reason that Wiggins and KAT can't be plus or even dominant defenders other than drive/want to. That isn't on Thibs.

It is mainly on the players, but good coaches can coax players into giving more of an effort. 

It's not as if the way the team currently plays is a highly intensive, X's and O's, game as it stands.  I was fortunate enough to be sitting on the floor for the Jazz game on Easter, and Towns' record setting game the Wednesday before - there is zero flow to this offense and zero rhyme/reason behind it.  Watching the Jazz run through their offensive set was impressive and watching us was nauseating. If there isn't a player or players on our team just having a dominant shooting night, we are dead in the water.  I've never seen a team set as few low post screens, and just post up guys in the corner and play two on two basketball as much as this team...

Given that we aren't seeing what we need to see defensively, and the team runs an offense that's reliant on athletes winning one on one matchups, it makes sense to me to try and find a different coach who may relate better to his players and MAY be able to get more out of them.

Edited April 10, 2018 by rpmwr19

[vikestyle]

1 minute ago, SemperFeist said:

Thins isn’t a hard-nosed coach. He’s a thick-headed coach. 

Zimmer demands a lot from his players, but he’s shown time and time again that he can adapt to his players and but them in the best position to succeed. That’s why they’d run through a wall for him. 

Thibs only knows one approach, and when it doesn’t work, he only knows how to dig in deeper and yell louder. His players have failed to respond to him, and he’s failed to reach them. 

Exactly. Remember when Chip Kelly got run out of Philly because of lack of "emotional intelligence"? That's a real thing. Great leaders understand what motivates their players and they adapt their style to fit that. Look at coaches like McVay, Doug Pederson, Steve Curr, Brad Stevens, etc. They put their guys in positions to play to their strengths and value their players opinions. It's the new age of coaching. How many times have leaders like Gibson and Crawford said that the bench needs more minutes only to see the starters all play 40+ minutes the next game? Thibs' unwillingness to listen to his players and inability to adapt will get him fired.

[JDBrocks]

I'm not saying that Thibs is the guy to take them to the promised land. I just don't think that Wiggins, and to a lesser extent KAT, are going to change much with another coach. It's probably worth a try, but I just see so much wasted potential in Wiggins. He could be a historically good player for the franchise, and is playing with guys that can help him get there.

[swede700]

4 minutes ago, JDBrocks said:

I'm not saying that Thibs is the guy to take them to the promised land. I just don't think that Wiggins, and to a lesser extent KAT, are going to change much with another coach. It's probably worth a try, but I just see so much wasted potential in Wiggins. He could be a historically good player for the franchise, and is playing with guys that can help him get there.

It's why the sadness of Flip's death will continue to haunt this franchise.  He was a coach that probably could have gotten more out of Wiggins than Thibs has, as he had an adaptable personality.  

[Klomp]

I don't think Wiggins is the only one with an effort problem. I'm sick of Towns taking so long getting up the court, causing the halfcourt offense to stall because they have to wait for him. Early in the year people were blaming Teague for this, but I think Teague was mostly slow initiating the offense because Towns was slow getting up the court.

Pay attention to Towns some times when we're bringing the ball up the court. I know he's often the inbounder, but he just doesn't hustle up the court like he should, and it stalls the offense.

I know I'm in the minority on this, but I think Towns also has some warts of his own he has to figure out in order for this team to take the next step.

[SkolMasterMN]

10 hours ago, Klomp said:

I don't think Wiggins is the only one with an effort problem. I'm sick of Towns taking so long getting up the court, causing the halfcourt offense to stall because they have to wait for him. Early in the year people were blaming Teague for this, but I think Teague was mostly slow initiating the offense because Towns was slow getting up the court.

Pay attention to Towns some times when we're bringing the ball up the court. I know he's often the inbounder, but he just doesn't hustle up the court like he should, and it stalls the offense.

I know I'm in the minority on this, but I think Towns also has some warts of his own he has to figure out in order for this team to take the next step.

I remember Kevin Love would do this back when he was on the Wolves. I'd say it can be a negative to having a big man as your star player, they can slow down the offense a little because the offense can't function as effectively without the big man down near the basket. Butler being back helps with this though.

Overall though I have no complaints about Towns, as he does so many things throughout the game that positively impact the Wolves. I just think Towns is a much more complete player than Love ever was. Towns is the face of this franchise and I hope he stays with us until his career ends. 

[Klomp]

16 hours ago, vikestyle said:

I agree with that. Effort shouldn't have to be taught. The confusing part to me was Wiggins' lack of production when Butler was out. I get that it has been a transition for him because he doesn't touch the ball as much with Butler and Teague in the mix, but that effort wasn't there when Butler was out either. I'm trying to be optimistic about Andrew, but it's getting harder to be that way.

I don't think Wiggins is intentionally slacking off. I think he simply hasn't unlocked his full potential. He thinks he's working hard. He thinks he's giving his all. He thinks he's doing all that he can. But I don't think that's even close to being the case.

I genuinely hope this is something that gets figured out this offseason. Maybe Jimmy needs to invite Andrew down to his place for the summer, to show him what hard work looks like. Demand that excellence from him this offseason. Andrew can still turn this thing around. I'm not quite ready to just give up on him, though I'd probably understand if the team is.

[Klomp]

37 minutes ago, SkolMasterMN said:

Overall though I have no complaints about Towns, as he does so many things throughout the game that positively impact the Wolves. I just think Towns is a much more complete player than Love ever was. Towns is the face of this franchise and I hope he stays with us until his career ends. 

The interesting thing is, Towns doesn't get the ball enough (according to many fans) but puts up comparable numbers to when Love had the offense ran through him. 

[The Gnat]

Big day in MN Sports. We get Twins and Astros at noon today, Wolves vs Nuggets tonight to get into the playoffs (and there are still scenarios where the Wolves can be the 5 seed or there were) and Wild vs Jets to start the playoffs.

[Worm Guts]

7 hours ago, Klomp said:

The interesting thing is, Towns doesn't get the ball enough (according to many fans) but puts up comparable numbers to when Love had the offense ran through him. 

Love scored on volume and good efficiency, but Towns efficiency is ever better.  Towns is an insanely gifted offensive player.  The thing about Love though, his defensive RPM always seemed to indicate he was a better defender than his reputation.  With Towns, that's not the case.  His defensive RPM is poor.

Edited April 11, 2018 by Worm Guts

[Klomp]

4 hours ago, The Gnat said:

Big day in MN Sports. We get Twins and Astros at noon today, Wolves vs Nuggets tonight to get into the playoffs (and there are still scenarios where the Wolves can be the 5 seed or there were) and Wild vs Jets to start the playoffs.

5 seed is out.

There are 16 possible outcomes tonight, 8 with us making the playoffs. Seeds depending on other games. 2 put us at 6 seed, 4 put us at 7 seed, 2 put us at 8 seed.

[wcblack34]

The way I see it, if the Wolves do not make the playoffs, Thibs should be fired (heck, maybe even if we do). The only thing that's been as advertised with him is the fact that he runs players into the ground. He's supposed to be a defensive mastermind - our defense sucks. He's supposed to be a motivator - two of our biggest stars look lazy half the time. He was utterly unprepared for life without Butler. He's utterly incapable of playing to the athleticism of the team. Butler may not like it if Thibs were canned, but I think he'd prefer playing for someone next year who played to the team's strengths, put up more W's, and who could adapt when things went wrong.