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Heimdallr

Gophers, Wolves and Loons, oh my! (MN Sports Thread)

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Now that the Twins are pretty much out of the running, I'd like to see at least one more sell before the end of the deadline in an hour and a half.  And if Kintzler is dealt, it don't matter who the closer is, because the team is probably not going to be in a lot of closing situations the rest of the season anyway (they'd just be lucky to get to the 81-win mark).  

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On 7/28/2017 at 8:55 AM, wcblack34 said:

I love the thought of Irving on this team WITH Wiggins, Butler, and KAT. I think it's a bit of a wash if we trade Wiggins for him. 

That said, we just don't have the assets to make a deal for Irving. 

Then again, we got Butler for pennies on the dollar. Maybe we'll get lucky again. 

I've never been so excited to watch the T-Wolves. If we were able to somehow get Irving, we would eventually (maybe immediately) be in the discussion for top team in the league. I still see Golden State Warriors are heads above every other team right now, but T-pups are young and upcoming team to watch. With the addition of Irving, we're right there in the mix.

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I'm probably the only person that has zero interest in seeing the Timberwolves acquire Irving.  I don't want another clone of J.R.Rider/Christian Laettner on this team (i.e. another crying baby/sissy bed-wetter).  

Edited by disaacs
Additional clarification

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10 minutes ago, disaacs said:

I'm probably the only person that has zero interest in seeing the Timberwolves acquire Irving.  I don't want another clone of J.R.Rider/Christian Laettner on this team (i.e. another crying baby/sissy bed-wetter).  

I've kind of come to that conclusion too. He's also not staying past his 2 year contract.

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There are multiple ways one could look at the Wolves' current situation involving Wiggins and Irving discussions.

On one hand, trading Wiggins is hard. You're talking about trading a 22-year old who would likely have six years of team control here (assuming a max extension). He's already a dynamic scorer, and a few improvements could vault him into the discussions for the best young players in the league, if he's not already in them.

However, this team the Wolves are constructing is ready to win now and not two or three years down the road. Irving is already considered by peers to be among the league's top 25 players. A trade would mean the team added a Top 15 and a Top 25 player this offseason without giving up the only player from last year's team among the 30 NBA players who received an all-NBA vote.

Money is also going to be an interesting thing to look at. Wiggins will likely get the 5-year max if we keep him around. That's going to be a $25-30 million commitment per year starting next summer. Meanwhile, when Wiggins starts his extension next summer, Irving will be due $5 million less. In the new era of repeater taxes and the like, that extra wiggle room can prove to be valuable.

I also don't think it's a sure thing Irving would bolt at his first opportunity. The Wolves are on the list because of Jimmy Butler. I don't believe Jimmy Butler will leave as long as Thibodeau is still coaching here. So as long as Thibodeau is still coaching here in two seasons, I think Butler (which also means Irving) is still playing here.

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2 hours ago, PrplChilPill said:

Kintzler for a lottery ticket A ball pitcher. Makes sense.

Yeah, they may as well have traded Dozier and Santana for jack too. They've obviously given up on the season, and those two will never have as much value as they do now. 

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They traded for all left handers. I like that part of the trades. Not too concerned about Kinzler as he was over performing and really doesnt have the overpowering stuff you'd like to see out of your closer. If the Twins like though they can resign him in the offseason.

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2 hours ago, PrplChilPill said:

Kintzler for a lottery ticket A ball pitcher. Makes sense.

He's only 20 years old. Still room to grow and develop into a good pitcher.

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17 hours ago, Klomp said:

There are multiple ways one could look at the Wolves' current situation involving Wiggins and Irving discussions.

On one hand, trading Wiggins is hard. You're talking about trading a 22-year old who would likely have six years of team control here (assuming a max extension). He's already a dynamic scorer, and a few improvements could vault him into the discussions for the best young players in the league, if he's not already in them.

However, this team the Wolves are constructing is ready to win now and not two or three years down the road. Irving is already considered by peers to be among the league's top 25 players. A trade would mean the team added a Top 15 and a Top 25 player this offseason without giving up the only player from last year's team among the 30 NBA players who received an all-NBA vote.

Money is also going to be an interesting thing to look at. Wiggins will likely get the 5-year max if we keep him around. That's going to be a $25-30 million commitment per year starting next summer. Meanwhile, when Wiggins starts his extension next summer, Irving will be due $5 million less. In the new era of repeater taxes and the like, that extra wiggle room can prove to be valuable.

I also don't think it's a sure thing Irving would bolt at his first opportunity. The Wolves are on the list because of Jimmy Butler. I don't believe Jimmy Butler will leave as long as Thibodeau is still coaching here. So as long as Thibodeau is still coaching here in two seasons, I think Butler (which also means Irving) is still playing here.

The problem is that this team, even if Irving would be brought in in place of Wiggins, is they still aren't winning a title in the next 2 years.  A team, even with those 3, just isn't deep enough.  They should just leave Wiggins alone, and build better depth on the bench.  

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2 hours ago, disaacs said:

The problem is that this team, even if Irving would be brought in in place of Wiggins, is they still aren't winning a title in the next 2 years.  A team, even with those 3, just isn't deep enough.  They should just leave Wiggins alone, and build better depth on the bench.  

Why is a championship the only barometer of a successful trade?

As for depth, I think many veterans would find a Towns/Butler/Irving trio more appealing than a Towns/Butler/Wiggins. Positionally, I think it's easier to build around too. Wings currently have no incentive to rush here because there's not much potential for playing time. I think that's a big reason why it's been so quiet.

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A championship isn't necessarily the barometer of a successful trade, but it is the barometer that would determine whether Irving would stay beyond the 2-yr period.  You made the argument that Irving wouldn't necessarily bolt at his first opportunity.  Having been a Minnesota sports fan my entire lifetime and a Timberwolves fan throughout their entire existence, until proven otherwise, I don't believe it.  The "only" good player that they have had in their entire existence that didn't bolt or didn't want to bolt at their first opportunity is Kevin Garnett.  Everyone else couldn't get out of town fast enough.  

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13 minutes ago, disaacs said:

A championship isn't necessarily the barometer of a successful trade, but it is the barometer that would determine whether Irving would stay beyond the 2-yr period.  You made the argument that Irving wouldn't necessarily bolt at his first opportunity.  Having been a Minnesota sports fan my entire lifetime and a Timberwolves fan throughout their entire existence, until proven otherwise, I don't believe it.  The "only" good player that they have had in their entire existence that didn't bolt or didn't want to bolt at their first opportunity is Kevin Garnett.  Everyone else couldn't get out of town fast enough.  

Different times.

Maybe I'm being too optimistic, but players bolt because the team hasn't been good. A team with Towns, Butler and Irving would be very good.

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