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Vixen Twins watch Wild Wolves and Loony Lynx (MN Sports Thread)


Heimdallr

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3 hours ago, wcblack34 said:

The Twins are collapsing. They need to sell the farm to overhaul the bullpen. 

I’m so sick of hearing about the farm system when it comes to the Twins.

Watching the Twins over the past 20 years, all I’ve heard about is how this player, or that player, can’t be traded because he’s a “top prospect”. Only to see the team lose quickly in the first round of the playoffs. 

Well, these “top prospects” who were deemed untouchable; Scott Baker, Kevin Slowey, Aaron Hicks, Wilson Ramos, etc. how many of them became players where you could say you were glad they weren’t traded? That’s right, none. 

The current farm system is no different. A few “top prospects” who are likely to never be anything more than an adequate MLB player. Refusing to move any of these players for legit MLB talent that could help this team win is a massive slap in the face to the fans who, bafflingly, still support this team.

It is very evident that the ownership of this team does not care about winning. 

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1 minute ago, SemperFeist said:

Well, these “top prospects” who were deemed untouchable; Scott Baker, Kevin Slowey, Aaron Hicks, Wilson Ramos, etc. how many of them became players where you could say you were glad they weren’t traded? That’s right, none. 

Byron Buxton, Miguel Sano, Jose Berrios

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They’ve got a ton of homegrown talent on this roster, and the farm system is pretty well stocked right now. 

They have to make moves though. May, Littel, Harper, and Parker can’t get them through a playoff series. They’ve had the lead or been tied in their last 6 losses. 5 of those were at home.

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19 minutes ago, Klomp said:

Byron Buxton, Miguel Sano, Jose Berrios

And none of them are really special special. Buxton is a special fielder, but an average hitter. Sano has special power (when he connects) and he wows the crowd when he hits the ball 450 feet. But overall he’s an average hitter and an average fielder. and And Berrios is inconsistent, and we’re still waiting for things to click.

And if the team had had a year like they’re having now when any of those three were prospects, none of them are the types of players where hindsight would have me saying “we shouldn’t have traded him”. 

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The “untouchables” can be touchable for the right price. But beyond those, there’s a lot of depth in the farm system. They shouldn’t be stingy with it. They should also bring Graterol up and get him some experience at the back of the rotation or in the pen. He may only be at AA right now, but he’s got better stuff than 10 of the pitchers on our roster. 

We have minor league outfielders and middle infielders who are largely redundant with the talent we have on the big league squad now. Definitely need to move some of them. 

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10 hours ago, wcblack34 said:

The “untouchables” can be touchable for the right price. But beyond those, there’s a lot of depth in the farm system. They shouldn’t be stingy with it. They should also bring Graterol up and get him some experience at the back of the rotation or in the pen. He may only be at AA right now, but he’s got better stuff than 10 of the pitchers on our roster. 

We have minor league outfielders and middle infielders who are largely redundant with the talent we have on the big league squad now. Definitely need to move some of them. 

I generally agree with you, except I believe that Graterol is still injured and has not pitched since late May.

In my opinion, guys like Javier, Gordon, Larnach, and Rooker should be available with no questions asked. Same With Balazovic, Duran, and Gonsalvez. Lewis, Kirilloff, and Graterol must fetch a team controlled front line starter or shut down arm from the pen. Trading guys that grade in the top 50 prospects in all of baseball for a half year rental will gut this team, which is set up to be successful for a while.

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Let's keep in mind that in this Twins collapse, the team ERA before the collapse was 3.90, and during the collapse it's been 3.95, so clearly we need to fix the offense, because the pitching has barely changed at all.

 

I should say with this, I am totally cool with trading for the combo of Marcus Stroman (team control) and Ken Giles. That would be huge for this team and give us a top line starter (potential wise) to go with Berrios long term.

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While the ERA may be similar, it’s the situations where the pitching has failed. What’s the ERA of the starters vs the relievers before the collapse, compared to after? 

In the first part of the season we all knew that the bats were over achieving, and that the Twins were going to need some pitching help to offset the bats when they started to cool off. Well, the bats have cooled off, and they still need pitching. 

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There's no question that the relievers have been the weakness of this team. Every other position is in the top 11 in MLB by WAR this year. I expect that 3B will jump in the top ten as Sano continues to mash since they made the adjustments to his grip/swing.

 

Rk Total All P SP RP Non-P C 1B 2B 3B SS LF CF RF OF (All) DH PH
1
LAD
16.2
TEX
6.7
WSN
10.5
CLE
1.8
LAD
14.1
MIN
1.5
LAD
2.5
NYY
1.9
OAK
3.6
MIN
2.9
HOU
2.0
LAA
4.1
LAD
5.1
LAD
6.9
HOU
1.4
LAD
1.1
2
HOU
15.1
WSN
6.5
TEX
6.7
COL
1.7
MIN
12.9
CHC
1.2
NYM
2.5
LAD
1.3
HOU
2.2
SDP
2.8
WSN
1.2
MIN
2.2
MIL
4.2
HOU
4.9
MIN
1.3
MIN
0.6
3
MIN
12.1
CIN
6.4
CIN
6.7
LAA
1.5
HOU
10.8
ARI
1.1
ATL
1.6
ARI
1.2
BOS
2.0
OAK
2.8
TEX
1.2
ARI
2.0
BOS
2.4
LAA
4.8
LAA
1.0
HOU
0.2
4
TBR
10.0
TBR
5.8
TBR
6.0
NYY
1.0
ARI
7.1
CLE
0.9
CHC
1.6
ATL
1.2
WSN
1.9
ARI
2.3
NYY
1.1
HOU
1.8
NYY
2.2
NYY
4.4
TBR
0.7
TBR
0.1
5
OAK
9.5
HOU
4.3
LAD
5.2
OAK
0.6
OAK
6.4
PHI
0.8
PIT
1.2
STL
1.2
ARI
1.7
COL
2.1
TBR
1.1
OAK
1.4
HOU
1.1
MIN
4.2
SEA
0.4
NYY
0.1
6
NYY
8.2
CHC
3.6
HOU
5.0
TOR
0.6
NYY
6.0
SEA
0.7
CLE
0.9
TBR
1.1
COL
1.7
CHC
2.0
MIN
1.0
NYY
1.1
MIN
1.0
MIL
3.6
TEX
0.3
SFG
0.1
7
CHC
7.4
CLE
3.3
CHC
4.0
STL
0.5
TBR
4.2
MIL
0.7
OAK
0.8
MIL
1.1
LAD
1.6
HOU
2.0
LAD
0.9
TEX
1.1
NYM
0.6
TBR
2.7
MIL
0.1
OAK
0.1
8
ARI
6.3
OAK
3.1
ARI
2.7
SFG
0.5
ATL
3.9
HOU
0.6
SEA
0.8
MIN
0.9
CHC
1.5
BOS
1.9
ATL
0.7
TBR
1.1
TBR
0.5
BOS
2.5
LAD
0.1
CLE
-0.2
9
WSN
4.4
COL
2.6
OAK
2.4
TEX
0.1
CHC
3.8
CHW
0.6
PHI
0.8
LAA
0.5
ATL
1.3
STL
1.4
OAK
0.5
LAD
0.9
CLE
0.4
OAK
1.8
NYM
0.0
SEA
-0.2
10
BOS
3.7
NYY
2.2
MIN
2.0
CIN
0.0
BOS
3.6
MIA
0.2
MIN
0.3
TOR
0.4
CHW
1.2
LAD
1.2
STL
0.4
ATL
0.7
LAA
0.4
WSN
1.4
PIT
0.0
STL
-0.2
11
TEX
2.2
LAD
2.1
COL
1.7
TBR
0.0
LAA
3.2
NYY
0.2
ARI
0.2
HOU
0.2
MIN
1.2
MIA
0.9
PHI
0.4
STL
0.6
KCR
0.3
TEX
1.4
SFG
0.0
TEX
-0.2
12
ATL
2.1
BOS
0.1
CLE
1.6
CHW
-0.1
MIL
2.9
BAL
0.1
NYY
-0.1
PIT
0.2
SFG
0.9
KCR
0.9
LAA
0.3
WSN
0.5
COL
0.0
ATL
0.9
ARI
0.0
ATL
-0.2
13
LAA
2.0
STL
0.1
NYY
1.5
CHC
-0.3
STL
1.1
BOS
-0.1
TBR
-0.1
PHI
0.0
SDP
0.5
CLE
0.8
PIT
0.1
PIT
0.4
CIN
0.0
ARI
0.8
WSN
0.0
ARI
-0.2
14
CLE
1.9
PHI
-0.7
NYM
1.4
HOU
-0.4
SDP
-0.8
SFG
-0.4
STL
-0.3
BAL
-0.4
NYM
0.5
CHW
0.8
TOR
0.1
CHW
0.3
SDP
0.0
STL
0.3
PHI
0.0
MIL
-0.4
15
CIN
1.7
MIN
-0.8
PHI
1.1
BOS
-0.7
CLE
-1.4
CIN
-0.4
SFG
-0.4
KCR
-0.5
NYY
0.4
TBR
0.6
ARI
0.1
BOS
0.3
CHC
0.0
KCR
-0.3
ATL
0.0
BOS
-0.4
16
STL
1.2
ARI
-0.8
MIA
1.0
PIT
-1.2
PHI
-1.7
KCR
-0.4
MIA
-0.4
WSN
-0.6
MIA
0.2
NYY
0.4
NYM
0.0
SDP
0.0
OAK
-0.1
SDP
-0.4
CHC
0.0
CIN
-0.4
17
MIL
-1.3
LAA
-1.2
BOS
0.9
ATL
-1.6
NYM
-2.1
COL
-0.4
MIL
-0.5
CHW
-0.7
TBR
0.1
LAA
0.3
KCR
-0.2
MIL
-0.2
SEA
-0.1
PHI
-1.1
CIN
0.0
LAA
-0.5
18
PHI
-2.4
NYM
-1.6
ATL
0.7
PHI
-1.8
WSN
-2.1
WSN
-0.5
CIN
-0.5
SDP
-0.9
KCR
0.0
TOR
0.3
BOS
-0.2
SFG
-0.4
DET
-0.1
CHC
-1.1
MIA
-0.1
KCR
-0.5
19
NYM
-3.7
TOR
-1.7
BAL
0.2
MIN
-2.8
SEA
-2.7
LAD
-0.6
HOU
-0.7
CHC
-0.9
CIN
0.0
TEX
0.1
SDP
-0.4
KCR
-0.4
SFG
-0.2
SFG
-1.1
STL
-0.1
CHC
-0.5
20
COL
-4.6
ATL
-1.8
MIL
0.0
DET
-3.1
SFG
-3.1
STL
-0.7
BOS
-0.7
CIN
-0.9
DET
-0.3
PHI
0.0
MIL
-0.4
CHC
-0.4
PHI
-0.2
PIT
-1.2
SDP
-0.1
TOR
-0.6
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1 hour ago, vikesfan89 said:

Arraez could definitely make some minor league infielders expendable. It's crazy that I've never heard of him until this year

He's hit at every level, but I don't think anyone could have expected this. And watching him hit, he's no fluke. He also has positional flexibility. He's looked great at 3B today. Maybe not the power guy you'd like on the corners, but he's just too good to keep on the bench. Imagine if Kirilloff really is a better hitter....

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