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Vixen Twins watch Wild Wolves and Loony Lynx (MN Sports Thread)


Heimdallr

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3 minutes ago, JDBrocks said:

He needs to deliver on his word - win the division, go to a rose bowl. Beating up on bad non-conference teams and losing games you should win when the season is on the line is not worthy of yearly contract extensions and raises. For all of his recruiting wins based on rankings, these guys are not contributing. This season would have been a disaster without Mo Ibrahim and JMS. Winning the recruiting class ranking game is not contributing to success on the field, so I disagree that talent is more important than coaching - that's only true at the elite programs in the country. It just so happens that those 10-12 schools also attract the best coaches.

Your first 2 sentences exactly represent the entire Mason tenure.  

His recruits are contributing.  He's made coaching mistakes (like probably relying too much on Morgan), but I don't know if you purposefully neglected to mention Kaliakmanis and Brockington, who both came on late and certainly contributed.  Rankings are always subjective, but you also have to factor in the transfer portal game now.  The impatience of some kids lead to them transferring out when they probably weren't ready to play or were stuck behind Mo.  Could you have imagined a tandem of Mo and Bucky?  Bucky's impatience to play led to him transferring out?  Is that PJ's fault?  Lots of guys at Alabama over time have sat behind NFL-ready players and still do to some extent because of that school's reputation.  That ain't going to happen here or at many other schools.  

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6 minutes ago, swede700 said:

Your first 2 sentences exactly represent the entire Mason tenure.  

His recruits are contributing.  He's made coaching mistakes (like probably relying too much on Morgan), but I don't know if you purposefully neglected to mention Kaliakmanis and Brockington, who both came on late and certainly contributed.  Rankings are always subjective, but you also have to factor in the transfer portal game now.  The impatience of some kids lead to them transferring out when they probably weren't ready to play or were stuck behind Mo.  Could you have imagined a tandem of Mo and Bucky?  Bucky's impatience to play led to him transferring out?  Is that PJ's fault?  Lots of guys at Alabama over time have sat behind NFL-ready players and still do to some extent because of that school's reputation.  That ain't going to happen here or at many other schools.  

Had he recruited Trey Lance to play QB, his tenure might look much different. 

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7 minutes ago, wcblack34 said:

Had he recruited Trey Lance to play QB, his tenure might look much different. 

It certainly might have been...he actually was recruiting Lance, but had promised Brennan Armstrong that he would be the only QB recruit, so Fleck couldn't offer Lance that guarantee to be a QB.  It was actually Lance's impatience himself that partially caused him not to be a Gopher, as Armstrong ended up pulling his commitment and went to VA, so Lance could have been the next man up.  Here's the story from a year ago:

https://shamasportsheadliners.com/clarifying-trey-lance-gophers-saga/

Somewhat ironically, Armstrong himself is now in the portal as a graduate transfer.  

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31 minutes ago, swede700 said:

Your first 2 sentences exactly represent the entire Mason tenure.  

His recruits are contributing.  He's made coaching mistakes (like probably relying too much on Morgan), but I don't know if you purposefully neglected to mention Kaliakmanis and Brockington, who both came on late and certainly contributed.  Rankings are always subjective, but you also have to factor in the transfer portal game now.  The impatience of some kids lead to them transferring out when they probably weren't ready to play or were stuck behind Mo.  Could you have imagined a tandem of Mo and Bucky?  Bucky's impatience to play led to him transferring out?  Is that PJ's fault?  Lots of guys at Alabama over time have sat behind NFL-ready players and still do to some extent because of that school's reputation.  That ain't going to happen here or at many other schools.  

Contributed to what, exactly? They're replicating the Mason tenure and wasting great recruiting classes with a bad coaching philosophy, and then extending the guy with the bad coaching philosophy. His recruits are contributing to 8-4 seasons that are exactly the same as the best seasons of the past. Fleck rode Kill's recruits to his best season in MN.

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25 minutes ago, JDBrocks said:

Contributed to what, exactly? They're replicating the Mason tenure and wasting great recruiting classes with a bad coaching philosophy, and then extending the guy with the bad coaching philosophy. His recruits are contributing to 8-4 seasons that are exactly the same as the best seasons of the past. Fleck rode Kill's recruits to his best season in MN.

Most of Kill-specific recruits were long gone by that time outside of Shannon Brooks and Rodney Smith.  If you want to tie in Claeys' class in 2016 (who likely stayed with him), then sure, but they got 8 and 9 win seasons out of all his own.  

I think the next 2 yrs will tell a lot...they have a rougher schedule, and a lot of the recruits that came off that best season that are still there will be contributing more.  We already have seen glimpses with Brockington and Kaliakmanis, as well as Justin Walley.  Since I don't follow their roster and it's changes tremendously closely, I don't know who else, but the picture will begin to become clearer and a better perception will begin to take shape. 

Normally I would say we should know by now since he's been there 6 years, but over the last couple of years, we've had a pandemic, NIL and transfer portal changes which cause all kinds of chaos, so it's really difficult to get an accurate perception.  With the pandemic's effects mostly in the rearview mirror, it's going to be a lot easier to compare him to other situations.   

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Claeys recruits were Kill recruits. They work on classes years in advance, and Claeys only got that job because of Kill's health issues.

Kaliakmanis looked decent, at best - and I want him to be good! I've followed him as a top IL QB. I don't know why you're defending this move, though. It doesn't move the needle for the program even a little, and this year, with the easiest path to the division that they can expect to see, they tripped all over themselves as team built with mostly his recruits. It's fair to expect more out of a guy and a program that keeps telling its fans that they are headed in the right direction with no results.

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49 minutes ago, JDBrocks said:

Claeys recruits were Kill recruits. They work on classes years in advance, and Claeys only got that job because of Kill's health issues.

Kaliakmanis looked decent, at best - and I want him to be good! I've followed him as a top IL QB. I don't know why you're defending this move, though. It doesn't move the needle for the program even a little, and this year, with the easiest path to the division that they can expect to see, they tripped all over themselves as team built with mostly his recruits. It's fair to expect more out of a guy and a program that keeps telling its fans that they are headed in the right direction with no results.

Fair enough...but, who would you replace him with?  As far as I'm concerned, there ain't another guy out there.  I thought canning Mason was probably the right move at the time since the program had really plateaued and likely wasn't going anywhere.  We all see how that turned out.  Until it's abundantly clear that Fleck ain't the guy, I don't believe it'd be responsible to even consider going another direction.  As I indicated, these next 2 years will be the biggest tell.  I could certainly feel differently then.  

 

 

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I agree they won’t find anyone better, but why is he getting a raise and an extension? They just gave him an extension and a raise last year. 8 and 9 win seasons are not worthy of tying your organization to a guy that routinely fails to back up his talk in a weak division because he isn’t maximizing the talent on the roster. I don’t get it.

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9 hours ago, JDBrocks said:

I agree they won’t find anyone better, but why is he getting a raise and an extension? They just gave him an extension and a raise last year. 8 and 9 win seasons are not worthy of tying your organization to a guy that routinely fails to back up his talk in a weak division because he isn’t maximizing the talent on the roster. I don’t get it.

That's how the game is played.  Fickell and Rhule got hired at Wisconsin and Nebraska for nearly $8M and $9M, so you give the coach you have a modest raise to keep pace (still only at about $6M).  

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Over 70 Native American high school football players, including three from Minnesota, will take the field as part of the fifth annual Indigenous Bowl on Sunday inside U.S. Bank Stadium.

It's the second year in a row that the home of the Minnesota Vikings has hosted the game thanks to a partnership between the NFL, the Minnesota Vikings, and the 7G Foundation.

https://www.audacy.com/wccoradio/news/local/2022-indigenous-bowl-is-sunday-inside-u-s-bank-stadium?fbclid=IwAR3xJ7bGQFLg4zBZ8kWLmXhIPMf6MlUYRbsVN1IPcnPO3DF-NIbbHAlk5sQ

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26 minutes ago, cconocool said:

I hope the Twins lose out of Correa, so they can offer a big contract to one of the pitchers available. SS are a bit overrated and the system is chocked full of potential replacements. 

They can do both. Correa gives them leadership and experience on a team that should win the division for the near future and no prospects ready to step up now. They have a ton of cash to spend if they want to just get back to where they were last year. 

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5 hours ago, JDBrocks said:

They can do both. Correa gives them leadership and experience on a team that should win the division for the near future and no prospects ready to step up now. They have a ton of cash to spend if they want to just get back to where they were last year. 

Can they do both? Yes. Will they? No. Not as long as the Pohlads own the team. Tale as old as time. 

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19 hours ago, cconocool said:

I hope the Twins lose out of Correa, so they can offer a big contract to one of the pitchers available. SS are a bit overrated and the system is chocked full of potential replacements. 

Which pitcher? Rodon wants seven years..... Who is better than what the twins have other than him?

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