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Positional Analysis: WR


WindyCity

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7 hours ago, G08 said:

Durkin on Wilson:

Summary: Wilson’s familiarity with Matt Nagy’s scheme makes him an ideal free agent target for a wide receiver group in need of a talent infusion. After going undrafted out of Georgia Southern, Wilson has steadily earned more reps and became a legitimate target and chain mover by the end of 2017. Earlier in his career, he was prone to making some business decisions on the field. That changed last season, when he actively worked over the middle of the field, fought for extra yardage and was a physical blocker in the run game. While he was typically lined up in the slot, he was effective outside as well. His alignment flexibility combined with his speed makes him an ideal fit to help the new offense in an expanded role.

I agree with Durkin there is a lot to like about Wilson.

As I said above he is on my short list that we need to get someone off of. 

We just need him to make it to the market. Hopefully the Chiefs have 2nd thoughts about cutting Dee ford

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If every WR has flaws give me the most talented flawed WR.

The only reason you would sign Moncrief over Landry is money. Moncrief has significantly worse production and a long injury. Money shouldnt factor into it.

Not getting Mitch the best available weapons is like buying your kid a worse life jacket because it is a better value. That is how important this is to Mitch’s success. You buy the best life jacket your money can buy even if it is a little wasteful.

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1 hour ago, WindyCity said:

I agree with Durkin there is a lot to like about Wilson.

As I said above he is on my short list that we need to get someone off of. 

We just need him to make it to the market. Hopefully the Chiefs have 2nd thoughts about cutting Dee ford

I'm a broken record here but he will always be behind Hill and Kelce. You can argue Hunt as well.

In Chicago, he'd be the man (or at least we can sell him on that).

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2 hours ago, WindyCity said:

If every WR has flaws give me the most talented flawed WR.

The only reason you would sign Moncrief over Landry is money. Moncrief has significantly worse production and a long injury. Money shouldnt factor into it.

Not getting Mitch the best available weapons is like buying your kid a worse life jacket because it is a better value. That is how important this is to Mitch’s success. You buy the best life jacket your money can buy even if it is a little wasteful.

Except it’s not the only reason you would sign another FA WR over Landry. If they like Cohen a lot in the slot (or Meredith) then Landry is superfluous because he only plays in the slot. He is, by definition, a role player. He might be really good in that role (we have to agree to disagree about his ability at some point), but if that role isn’t an opening we are looking to fill in our offense then that doesn’t really matter if he’s good at it or not. Moncrief or Richardson or Jordan Matthews or maybe even Wilson or half a dozen other guys, they all fill a different or at least more diverse role than Landry. The whole point is maximizing the collective good. If they think Cohen or Meredith is a 60+ catch slot player with 100 targets next year, and I absolutely think either could be that next year in that role, then bringing in Landry to fill that role adds what exactly? Slot WR is the one thing you can argue we actually already have somewhat covered at WR. We need the other guys. 

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2 minutes ago, Damikeeeee said:

I don't hate Wilson as a player.  His production has clearly been off the charts.  The whole "lets get the guy who used to play for our new coaches old team" smells a lot like our Roy Williams/Mike Martz signing.

I get what you're saying but to be fair Roy Williams was 30 and clearly on the decline when we signed him.

Wilson turns 26 in July, and with Nagy calling plays for 6 games, he produced:

24 receptions on 37 targets for 323 yards (13.46 YPC and a 64.8 CTH%). That's not bad at all for a #2 WR for around 1/3 of a season.

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I think maybe I'm trivializing the WR position, but I don't think this offense is going to require an Antonio Brown or Julio Jones.

Sure, having them would be great, but are they necessary?

 

What we need, IMO, is pure speed/quickness. We have that in Cohen, we will have that in Wilson (seriously, watch his cut-ups and you'll see how much burst this dude has). An accurate QB like Trubisky and a schemer like Nagy/Helfrich would be best served with someone who can create a little space, get an accurate ball from MT10, and then turn on the jets. That will open up so much underneath, force safeties back, and allow Howard to get downhill in light boxes.

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1 minute ago, G08 said:

I get what you're saying but to be fair Roy Williams was 30 and clearly on the decline when we signed him.

Wilson turns 26 in July, and with Nagy calling plays for 6 games, he produced:

24 receptions on 37 targets for 323 yards (13.46 YPC and a 64.8 CTH%). That's not bad at all for a #2 WR for around 1/3 of a season.

We're really reaching with all these projections.  I know everyone is technically a projection but just because he had a decent stretch for 1/3 of a season once; doesnt make me do a backflip to sign him.  He was the #4/#5 passing option on KC and those numbers don't blow me away.  If he is this #2 WR then he could command similar money to Marvin Jones or other #2's without the production to back it up.  Also I don't remember KC being a WR powerhouse so him not having more of an impact over his career is a concern.  His YPC is what 1 yard higher then Landry had last season before they went through the QB carousel they did this year?  I'd rather pay a bit more for the proven commodities.  If we sign Wilson it's going to be to a starters contract.  Has he earned that and has he shown a long of track record to be counted on as a top target?

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3 minutes ago, G08 said:

I think maybe I'm trivializing the WR position, but I don't think this offense is going to require an Antonio Brown or Julio Jones.

Sure, having them would be great, but are they necessary?

 

What we need, IMO, is pure speed/quickness. We have that in Cohen, we will have that in Wilson (seriously, watch his cut-ups and you'll see how much burst this dude has). An accurate QB like Trubisky and a schemer like Nagy/Helfrich would be best served with someone who can create a little space, get an accurate ball from MT10, and then turn on the jets. That will open up so much underneath, force safeties back, and allow Howard to get downhill in light boxes.

That's a really bold assumption that signing Wilson and moving Cohen to WR will make defenses change there gameplan.  Our O with those guys looks like a DCs wet dream.  Gameplan to stop the run and no top pass catchers worth rolling coverage towards.  That's a great way to boost the confidence of every D coming in to town.

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1 minute ago, Damikeeeee said:

That's a really bold assumption that signing Wilson and moving Cohen to WR will make defenses change there gameplan.  Our O with those guys looks like a DCs wet dream.  Gameplan to stop the run and no top pass catchers worth rolling coverage towards.  That's a great way to boost the confidence of every D coming in to town.

I disagree entirely. You've two speed options on the outside, Meredith in the slot, Shaheen at TE and Howard in the backfield.

Want to stack the box? Send Cohen/Wilson deep. Want to shade over to one of the speed guys? Hit them underneath.

Want to play 2 high? Pound the rock with Howard.

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1 minute ago, G08 said:

I disagree entirely. You've two speed options on the outside, Meredith in the slot, Shaheen at TE and Howard in the backfield.

Want to stack the box? Send Cohen/Wilson deep. Want to shade over to one of the speed guys? Hit them underneath.

Want to play 2 high? Pound the rock with Howard.

If it was just that easy. So our top 2 outside receivers are Wilson and Cohen?

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3 minutes ago, Damikeeeee said:

If it was just that easy. So our top 2 outside receivers are Wilson and Cohen?

No, hes saying that they are fast and threaten a defense vertically, which is what you need to get the extra man out of the box.  Maybe nobody in this core next year requires doubleteams, but when you can stretch the field at any given time, it forces the defense to play honest.  Truthfully that is not an element that Landry can bring.  He may require some coverages to be rolled his way but that doesnt force an extra man out of the box.  You can roll the safety or nickel on to him in single high, and still have an 8 man box.  When you have guys who are home run threats defenses have to respect it

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1 minute ago, Superman(DH23) said:

No, hes saying that they are fast and threaten a defense vertically, which is what you need to get the extra man out of the box.  Maybe nobody in this core next year requires doubleteams, but when you can stretch the field at any given time, it forces the defense to play honest.  Truthfully that is not an element that Landry can bring.  He may require some coverages to be rolled his way but that doesnt force an extra man out of the box.  You can roll the safety or nickel on to him in single high, and still have an 8 man box.  When you have guys who are home run threats defenses have to respect it

I understand the premise.  But being fast doesn't always take the defender out of the box.  If it did Al Davis would have put together some great offenses.  Landry absolutely can bring that element because you don't need speed to be a deep threat.  A lot of the best deep threats are guys with great ball skills like Landry.  If Landry is requiring double teams regardless of where they're coming from that's a big help.  Especially when he's still going to produce despite the doubles.  We have to stop thinking that Cohen is going to be an outside receiver.  It's not that easy of a position.  It seems like a used bandaid approach when surgery is needed.  

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