BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 I do agree with that, however it's not like 8 million dollars is going to suit up and start running routes for us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 Meredith and a rookie on the outside, Wilson in the slot. Kevin White can be WR4 I think I'd rather sign Wilson and someone else than throw all that jack at Jarvis Landry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 14, 2018 Author Share Posted February 14, 2018 Why is it too much money for a slot WR if they are going to play 90% of the snaps? Money should be allocated by targets not by position. If you are planning to target the slot WR 3 times a game that is a waste, but this offense features the slot WR more, like NE and GB. Traditionally it has been "too much" for a slot WR because they come off the field, but this is essentially a spread offense where he will be playing a ton. Speed can be found in other areas. Draft someone, sign John Brown, Donte Moncreif, Brice Butler, none will cost a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 14, 2018 Author Share Posted February 14, 2018 G08, I cannot quote right now. Financials should not be a huge factor, we can afford to make a run at the best without worry about the cap. In 2019 we have an insane amount of cap with limited players who will break the bank. It depends on how much you value the guaranteed. Based on track record you can pretty much expect 16 games and 1000 yards from Landry and a big presence on 3rd down. For a team with a young QB I think it is very important to not surround Trubisky with a ton of ? marks. If the Bears can land Wilson that would be awesome, but even he is a ? mark when he is the 2nd most targeted player on the offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 1 hour ago, G08 said: That much money for a slot WR... I just can't wrap my head around it, especially when we are lacking speed on the outside (unless they are relying on Kevin White, which would be stupid). Marshall did his best work for us in the slot, Fitz is doing it there and dominating, and several other great WRs did. Idc about where they line up, I just want production. If Wilson is the big add the the FA for that position was a failure. As far as money goes that will just keep going up year by year. Love Washington in the 2nd, and not hellbent on Landry, but we need a proven talent for a change. Hey one proven player and then swing for the fences with the rest, but we have to do something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 I agree we have to do something, but I don't want to do something JUST to do something. Brandon Marshall is a freaking monster and dominated everywhere, he didn't really do his best work for us in the slot if you look at pure production. Larry Fitzgerald is a hall of famer and also a monster. Jarvis Landry is little and he's slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 20 hours ago, G08 said: @dll2000 I really am starting to like James Washington in the second round... A lot of people are high on him. I haven't really watched him much and to be honest even if I did I am not the best at evaluating WR's. It has been my weakest position. Overall I have been really good at projecting college players to NFL and I'm really proud of my record on that even if no one knows it but me, but I have not been very good at projecting WR's. Problem is they all look really good in college and are wide open so much. There is no physical trait that makes a great NFL WR that you can tell from college film or combine. Really fast guys bust. Really big guys bust. Even really fast big guys bust. Great hands guys bust. Some guys who aren't that fast or big all of a sudden are very good at next level. The running QB and/or full out spread attack makes such a difference in getting guys open relative to the NFL where the QB is usually no threat to run at all and there is a TE or 2 compressing the alignment. Some few guys are obvious like Randy Moss, Calvin Johnson were and to a bit lesser extent Julio Jones (hands aren't quite as good, but you still knew he was going to be good no matter what). Only way you could miss on Moss or Johnson was if they went mental. Moss was actually a pretty high risk of that, but talent was blindingly obvious. But those guys are all worthy of a top 5 pick in any given year. I thought both David Terrell and Kevin White would be good WRs when drafted. Doh. I was young for Terrell in my defense and just watched live games. I thought Josh Doctson would be a really good player wherever he went. Hasn't happened at all yet. I thought Pryor would do well in Washington last year too. Not. I thought Treadwell would be a decent possession WR catching 50/50 balls even without separation and would help run game as a physical blocker. All bad misses. On my side I did think Ju-ju Shuster and Michael Thomas were underrated WR talents and would be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 @dll2000 I've had a lot of success with WRs, the biggest thing for me is picking up their route running. Can you make your stem look exactly the same regardless of what route you are running? How is your ability to track the football? Are you a natural hands catcher? Can you adjust/coordinate your body in the air on certain throws? Kevin White couldn't do any of that and it's why I knew he'd be a bum, I still have hopes for him but I am not holding my breath. I thought Amari Cooper was going to be a freaking stud, but he hasn't been as great as I expected... still, the talent is there. There are outliers, but I prefer sub 7 cone times on my WRs, large hands, and ideally a sub 4.45 speed but that's easily mitigated (IMO) but having the ability to run routes. Playing WR, to me, is an art form. Watching Jerry Rice brought tears to my eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 14, 2018 Author Share Posted February 14, 2018 Jarvis Landry is little and he is slow. But for some reason he is super reliable and very productive. The best coach in the league spends most of the game double teaming that slow little slot WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 14, 2018 Author Share Posted February 14, 2018 I would never try and tell you guys that Landry is the ideal target or has elite physical tools to work with, but what he has is 1. Available, which is one of the biggest positives. Outside of Robinson he is the best available WR and Robinson probably is not going to be available. 2. Production, decent QB play, bad QB play, he has still produced, obviously with varying degrees of efficiency. 3. Durability, he might be small and he works the middle but he has played 64 straight game for the Dolphins and always answers the bell. Durability is something the Bears have not had at WR and production is another they have not had. Yes he is going to cost too much, yes he has some edge to him, and yes he is not going to generate huge plays, but he is going to be there when Trubisky needs someone on 3rd down and is under pressure. He is going to run a good route and he is not going to drop the pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 2 hours ago, WindyCity said: G08, I cannot quote right now. Financials should not be a huge factor, we can afford to make a run at the best without worry about the cap. In 2019 we have an insane amount of cap with limited players who will break the bank. It depends on how much you value the guaranteed. Based on track record you can pretty much expect 16 games and 1000 yards from Landry and a big presence on 3rd down. For a team with a young QB I think it is very important to not surround Trubisky with a ton of ? marks. If the Bears can land Wilson that would be awesome, but even he is a ? mark when he is the 2nd most targeted player on the offense. Sorry just saw this, you can @ me so I'll get a notification To me, you don't give that much money to a slot WR. There's going to come a time, God-willing, where we have to spend valuable $$$ to re-sign and keep our young core. I don't want an albatross tied into a head-case like Landry. If he was a true X, if he was a 4.30 blazer, hell if he didn't have screws loose in his head I'd be all over spending big money on him. The fact of the matter is that he's not. This offense is going to out scheme you, I don't think it is going to rely on elite WR talents like Antonio Brown or Julio Jones. I understand it's not likely, but what if Kevin White has a big season? We basically won't be able to keep him because we blew our load on a slot WR. Now, if we signed him to a big contract BUT with an out clause after 2 years or so, I'd be a little more relieved. I don't think that's the case, though. Dude wants to get paid and, IMO, feels the need to be better (in all facets?) than his boy OBJ. That's not a good look, to me, for a brand new head coach, an OC that has 0 NFL experience, and a young QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 8 minutes ago, WindyCity said: The best coach in the league spends most of the game double teaming that slow little slot WR. Because he gets targeted 10 times a game, on average. Belichick does that, he takes away your #1 option. I don't think it was out of respect as much as it was "you over-utilize this punk, I'm taking him out of the game". Look at his yards per catch this season, 8.8 is a joke. It's short/quick hitters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 Landry had the 4th most targets in 2017, yet produced the 17th most yardage in the league. That is AWFUL bang for your buck. Garbage. We can play the extrapolation game if we want: If Albert Wilson had the same number of targets in 2017 as Jarvis Landry, on average he would have amassed 1,424 yards and just under 8 TDs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 14, 2018 Author Share Posted February 14, 2018 8.8 is a joke, but it is unfair to judge him simply based on one year with a bad QB. Every single WR in Miami lost between 2-3 YPC with Cutler as the QB. Kenny Stills lost the exact same yards per catch as Landry. That tells me it is a QB issue more than a WR issue, unless Still also decided to have a down year. Based on their career numbers [catch %, YPC, TDs/catch] and based on 124 targets, which is the most of a WR in the Reid era in KC the following free agent/recently re-signed WRs would produce Landry, 88 catches, 889 yards, 5 TDs Davante Adams, 73 catches, 870 yards, 8 TDs Allen Robinson, 65.7 catches, 926 yards, 7 TDs Sammy Watkins, 55.7 catches, 885 yards, 7 TDs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 14, 2018 Author Share Posted February 14, 2018 Quote Based on one year of stat analysis and a very unfair extrapolation, yes Wilson would be better. I am willing to bet the NFL doesn't see it that way and there compensation would reflect it. Wilson played on a good offense, with a Pro Bowl QB and other weapons around him, he also did not get double teamed or face the coverage that Landry did. Drop Wilson on to that mess of a Dolphins team and his numbers would not be as high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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