BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 3 hours ago, Sugashane said: We also crave talent. Landry and Cobb are the best 2 by a mile. Landry produced with crap QBs and Cobb has had Rodgers. I'm happy with either but we have a talent problem more than a speed problem. Agreed. Will Nagy try and make this Chiefs 2.0? I hope not! I would rather have a coach who can plot and scheme based on what his roster is, and not try and get guys that remind him of players he's had success with. Best case scenario for us is to increase the talent and variety in terms of players, and let the coach and QB make the best use of those weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 1, 2018 Author Share Posted February 1, 2018 4 hours ago, G08 said: This offense craves speed though, doesn't it? Landry was a 4.77 guy at the combine and 4.61 on his Pro Day... (not saying timed speed is the end-all-be-all, but it should be noted) It does like speed. The problem that Pace is going to run into is that the speed and talent in free agency are not the same guy. If he wants to add the most talented WR he will sign Landry. If he wants to upgrade the WR that is much easier, but could be a limited upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 56 minutes ago, RunningVaccs said: Agreed. Will Nagy try and make this Chiefs 2.0? I hope not! I would rather have a coach who can plot and scheme based on what his roster is, and not try and get guys that remind him of players he's had success with. Best case scenario for us is to increase the talent and variety in terms of players, and let the coach and QB make the best use of those weapons. I'm thinking the variability in KC was one of the things that drew Pace to him. They simply had a ton of speed so they adapted to using it, and used the TE well. They showed the use of RPOs, regular play action, pulling OL, rollouts and naked bootlegs, spread and power sets, gadget plays, etc. They did a LOT. But they reason they could do that was talent and execution, the speed and RAC was a major reason for the explosiveness. I have no problem with wanting speed, but if you lack a lot of talent you need to compromise and get talent, and coach up the speedy youngsters. I feel like Nagy will be able to adapt and throw in wrinkles that puts our players in the best situation. Cohen can jump in as the speed guy in HIll's (early career) role. Shaheen isn't near Kelce, but is still a weapon with a high ceiling. Meredith is a size/speed mismatch, etc. There are a lot of ways we can go, I just hope we get Trubisky developed to his full potential. An elite QB can elevate the offensive players around him dramatically, and if you have developed talent in the same scheme you get a juggernaut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 5 hours ago, WindyCity said: Very easily could happen. We know Pace has a lot riding on the offense. I think it is a risk, but I also cannot tell you Paul Richardson is as talented as Landry or as sure a thing to come in and produce. Tough spot with the free agent WR market drying up. Part of getting the offense right is not paying $15M a year to a $8M a year player. Didn’t we do enough of that kind of thing last year? Give me 2 established starters and a #2 pick for $15M or so over Landry alone at $15M, all day every day. I’m fine with an older vet too knowing they’re a one-year guy too for 2018 but would want a 2nd drafted WR late in that scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 1, 2018 Author Share Posted February 1, 2018 1 hour ago, AZBearsFan said: Part of getting the offense right is not paying $15M a year to a $8M a year player. Didn’t we do enough of that kind of thing last year? Give me 2 established starters and a #2 pick for $15M or so over Landry alone at $15M, all day every day. I’m fine with an older vet too knowing they’re a one-year guy too for 2018 but would want a 2nd drafted WR late in that scenario. What we saw last year was bargain bin shopping blowing up in a GMs face. I think last year is more likely to push him towards the tier 1 guys. I am with you. I think that is what they should do. But if they sign Paul Richardson and Albert Wilson they will need both of them to step up as they will be far more of a focus in this offense than they have been in the past. There is the risk, with the 2 tier 2 signings. If Wilson and Richardson produce as they have in the past, the Bears are going to be scrambling to find some production. I don’t know what the cash value is on going from the best possible WR core, which would include Landry, or a better WR core, which would not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 8 minutes ago, WindyCity said: What we saw last year was bargain bin shopping blowing up in a GMs face. I think last year is more likely to push him towards the tier 1 guys. I am with you. I think that is what they should do. But if they sign Paul Richardson and Albert Wilson they will need both of them to step up as they will be far more of a focus in this offense than they have been in the past. There is the risk, with the 2 tier 2 signings. If Wilson and Richardson produce as they have in the past, the Bears are going to be scrambling to find some production. I don’t know what the cash value is on going from the best possible WR core, which would include Landry, or a better WR core, which would not. There were other factors that went into the “bargain bin” failure last year at WR. And by failure I mean Wheaton. Wright was a 60-catch slot WR. I’d call that a hit of a signing especially at the price given that he was brought in for that exact role and he filled it well. I think every one of us would take a 60-catch #3 WR every year. The projected top 2 guys both being out for the season by the end of week 1 bumped everyone way up above their projected role and beyond what their skill sets were prepared to handle. Wright as a 3 was fine but as a de facto 1 he was miscast. Wheaton was unhealthy almost all of TC and the first half of the season for a variety of things he’s never had problems with before. As a healthy 3/4? Who knows. Wheaton was overpaid for his projected 3/4 role but that was always the right role for him. His history suggested he was capable of filling that role. I still like the Inman move even if he wasn’t great. He was capable and being that level of player coming in midseason and learning a new offense on the fly set him up for bumps in the road too. We also had a neutered offense coordinated by a HS level playcaller that consistently left much of the best receiving talent in a thin group on the bench in passing situations and was Tecmo Bowl level predictable. Some of our WR problem last year was the players without question, but a lot of it was the situations they were put in for reasons beyond their control. Wright, Wheaton and Inman were not set up for success, and for the most part they played to that. The good news is that the bulk of those issues should go away with Nagy calling the plays whether the WR are the same guys or not. No matter who we end up with at the position we can at least have confidence going in that they will be far better set up for success than our 2017 WR. Personnel aside, that’s a really good start to fixing the issues at the position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 KC has burners, Philly has a burner, we clearly do not UNLESS they foolishly want to rely on Kevin White. That's not worth it to me. Free agency can't get here soon enough, so many damn questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 While I wouldn't be opposed to the move, I'm not buying that Landry is the Bears #1 target in FA. It just doesn't seem like a Ryan Pace signing to me. $60+ million and $30+ million GTD for a slot receiver? Well I'll be damned. This is also coming from the guy (Allbright) who said that Dave Toub was the Bears' first choice for Head Coach prior to Nagy being hired, and Toub didn't even sniff an interview. Take what he says with a grain of salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 14 minutes ago, topwop1 said: While I wouldn't be opposed to the move, I'm not buying that Landry is the Bears #1 target in FA. It just doesn't seem like a Ryan Pace signing to me. $60+ million and $30+ million for a slot receiver. Well I'll be damned. This is also coming from the guy (Allbright) who said that Dave Toub was the Bears' first choice for Head Coach prior to Nagy being hired, and Toub didn't even sniff an interview. Take what he says with a grain of salt. He was wrong on Toub, but he’s also right A LOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said: He was wrong on Toub, but he’s also right A LOT. When it comes to the Broncos he is for sure but he's been wrong on quite a few Bears rumors since I've been following him. Everyone knew that with another poor season John Fox was destined to be fired so that one doesn't count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Allbright is about as good as it gets for info. He called Trubisky starting for one, and seems to be very reliable, and is interesting to read as well. I can't think of anyone who's gotten it right more often I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 I won't bag on Allbright, but I do hope he's wrong here. Do we know who the fastest WRs in this draft are going to be? Albert Wilson makes a ton of sense... speed, experienced in this system, and he's young/cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 1, 2018 Author Share Posted February 1, 2018 The Bears probably need to put a WR core together that can handle around 280 targets. They do not have the TEs or RBs to handle the volume of receptions that they did in Kansas City. You would need Paul Richardson to at least handle the 80 that he did this season in Seattle, and you would need him to be more productive with them than 44 catches and 700 yards. You would need him to be more productive because you won't have Doug Baldwin putting up 1200 yards. 80 targets, 44 catches, 703 yards, 6 TDs You would need Albert Wilson to probably step up closer to 80 targets and maintain his level of production per catch. 80 targets, 51 catches, 670 yards, 4 TDS Based on their most productive years the combination of Wilson and Richardson could give us, 160 targets, 95 catches, 1373 yards, 10 TDs. That leaves Meredith, Shaheen and Cohen to have monster years. The point being if you sign Richardson and Wilson you would really need both to take a step forward and not maintain even their best year of production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 19 minutes ago, RunningVaccs said: Allbright is about as good as it gets for info. He called Trubisky starting for one, and seems to be very reliable, and is interesting to read as well. I can't think of anyone who's gotten it right more often I guess. I'm not saying he's bad, rather just not to take every word coming from out of his mouth as gospel. He is now on record saying Bears are very interested in both Ridley and Landry. It goes without saying that any draft/FA news that comes out this time of year is pure rubbish. If we've learned anything from Pace in his first 3 years as GM it's that he doesn't show his hand very easily when it comes to the draft/FA. Like I said, I'm not buying it, but you guys can choose to believe what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 1, 2018 Author Share Posted February 1, 2018 Just now, G08 said: I won't bag on Allbright, but I do hope he's wrong here. Do we know who the fastest WRs in this draft are going to be? Albert Wilson makes a ton of sense... speed, experienced in this system, and he's young/cheap. The combine will be big for our WR evaluations. Signing Landry does not exclude you from adding speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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