BroncosFan2010 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Quote Not that I disagree with you. But Allen physically is quite a bit more talent than the 3 names you mentioned. His arm is also ridiculous. It’s literally been the talk of the Senior Bowl about how much velocity and spin he can put on a football, I read a report of one scout saying it was remarkable and he’d never seen anything like it. Arm strength clearly doesn’t = being a good QB. But Allen’s physical talent is off the charts, best since Luck (and arm talent wise Allen is better than Luck). Rosen, Osweiler, and even Lynch aren’t in Allen’s class in any physical attribute. People were hyping Lynch's arm and athleticism in the exact same way as Allen right now. Lynch was projected as a top 10 pick for months leading up to the draft. He was touted as the best arm in the draft by miles. Even if true, I don't think arm strength is that important for a QB. You either have NFL caliber power, of you don't. Once that is decided, the metrics of how much NFL power you have are low on the totem pole compared to other traits (football IQ, touch, anticipation, accuracy, throwing form, footwork, pocket presence; I would rate arm strength behind all of these). Quote But Allen’s physical talent is off the charts, best since Luck (and arm talent wise Allen is better than Luck). Logan Thomas was a far better physical talent than either Luck or Allen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Does anyone really think Elway is going to gamble his job on a kid that had a bad year in the mountain freaking west? After striking out on two tall "physically gifted" QBs? I'd be truly amazed and ready to overreact as a fan and call for Elway's job. After seeing Brock play all these years - what a FREAKING horrible pick man. The dude wasn't even gifted physically on top of having a bad college career. Dude was tall and had a connection to the Elway family. Think about the missed opportunity of all those backup reps behind Peyton MF Manning to a guy that does not deserve to be in the NFL. God I'm gonna get myself worked up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolly red giant Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 From what I read Mayfield was poor in 1-on-1 drills but very good in the team period Allen - it seems - was the opposite - hit everything in the 1-on-1's and was all over the shop in the team period. For me that puts Mayfield ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncosFan2010 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) Quote Does anyone really think Elway is going to gamble his job on a kid that had a bad year in the mountain freaking west? After striking out on two tall "physically gifted" QBs? I'd be truly amazed and ready to overreact as a fan and call for Elway's job. After seeing Brock play all these years - what a FREAKING horrible pick man. The dude wasn't even gifted physically on top of having a bad college career. Dude was tall and had a connection to the Elway family. Think about the missed opportunity of all those backup reps behind Peyton MF Manning to a guy that does not deserve to be in the NFL. God I'm gonna get myself worked up. Honestly, Brock has had about an average career for a R2 QB. Most flame out completely, a few succeed, and even more are 'bounce around the league backups' like Osweiler. Also, we cant forget that Osweiler was a primary reason we made the Super Bowl. He stepped in and played very well that year, and did enough to get us in a great position. I think there is an argument to be made that Brock was so instrumental in our SB run that he should be considered a 'hit' in R2 even though he provided only a handful of slightly above average games. Those games put us in position for a ring, and that's all that matters. Still glad as hell that we were outbid for him that offseason though. Its also worth noting that Peyton, like Brady, has never taken interest in grooming a successor and that whoever we drafted would need to develop based on their own work ethic and natural talents while expecting zero in terms of mentorship. Manning never, ever, ever gave a second glance to whoever was behind him. Edited January 24, 2018 by BroncosFan2010 PFM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 10 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said: Honestly, Brock has had about an average career for a R2 QB. Most flame out completely, a few succeed, and even more are 'bounce around the league backups' like Osweiler. Also, we cant forget that Osweiler was a primary reason we made the Super Bowl. He stepped in and played very well that year, and did enough to get us in a great position. I think there is an argument to be made that Brock was so instrumental in our SB run that he should be considered a 'hit' in R2 even though he provided only a handful of slightly above average games. Those games put us in position for a ring, and that's all that matters. Still glad as hell that we were outbid for him that offseason though. Its also worth noting that Peyton, like Brady, has never taken interest in grooming a successor and that whoever we drafted would need to develop based on their own work ethic and natural talents while expecting zero in terms of mentorship. Manning never, ever, ever gave a second glance to whoever was behind him. Eh, I mean the next three QBs taken that year were Wilson, Foles, and Cousins. I'll agree that you can call it a wash bc it's Super Bowl over everything, but I give Kubiak and Dennison a lot of credit for the offense functioning with Brock. His individual play was meh. They did an incredible job of limiting him and putting him in a place to succeed. I've said it a bunch - his most promising game was the SD game where he got benched bc they were opening the playbook up and he made a few nice throws. And it's fair to note that Brady and Manning aren't chill to backups, but it's still beneficial to watch the GOATs go to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 2 hours ago, BroncosFan2010 said: Why? Mobility? Because his arm is only a degree stronger than Rosen and his football IQ, touch, anticipation, accuracy, throwing form, footwork, etc. are all miles away from Rosen. We have fallen for this trap twice already with Osweiler and Lynch. But hey why not, maybe third time is the charm right. SMH. Allen has the want to and skill set to get better something Lynch never had. And Allen is way more talented than Brock coming out like night and day. I like Rosen but his injury history is scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncosFan2010 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Quote Allen has the want to and skill set to get better something Lynch never had. And Allen is way more talented than Brock coming out like night and day. I just think a lot of this is revisionist history. Brock was liked because he was tall, mobile and had a cannon. Lynch was liked because he was tall, mobile and had a cannon. Now Allen is liked for those same reasons. Lynch had better production against better competition than Allen. There were very few indications of a poor work ethic coming out. As a prospect, they are very similar. If they were both in this draft, looking back on Lynch and his draft hype, they would likely be held in similar esteem. Osewiler was in a similar boat, but his issues of panicking in the pocket were explored a bit more as a prospect so he fell to R2. He was however a basketball caliber athlete with a powerful arm (But poor release, but that can be fixed right? Just like Allen's accuracy can easily be fixed? Right? Anyone?) and excellent mobility. These three guys share way, way more in common than they don't. Allen is the flavor of the month so eat him up while the underwear Olympics rages on but come draft time people will begin to explore his real issues, issues that happen during games not during practice and the combine, and he will be placed correctly a few tiers below Darnold, Rosen and Mayfield. Flawed but exciting QB prospects almost always get hype right about now, when memory of their in-season issues is fading and they begin to show their physical talent on a practice field or a combine session. Its almost always fools gold. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 1 hour ago, BroncosFan2010 said: Honestly, Brock has had about an average career for a R2 QB. Most flame out completely, a few succeed, and even more are 'bounce around the league backups' like Osweiler. Also, we cant forget that Osweiler was a primary reason we made the Super Bowl. He stepped in and played very well that year, and did enough to get us in a great position. I think there is an argument to be made that Brock was so instrumental in our SB run that he should be considered a 'hit' in R2 even though he provided only a handful of slightly above average games. Those games put us in position for a ring, and that's all that matters. Still glad as hell that we were outbid for him that offseason though. Its also worth noting that Peyton, like Brady, has never taken interest in grooming a successor and that whoever we drafted would need to develop based on their own work ethic and natural talents while expecting zero in terms of mentorship. Manning never, ever, ever gave a second glance to whoever was behind him. His OT game against the Pats pretty much should earn him some respect. Bringing us back from a 4th quarter 21-7 deficit to a 30-24 OT win probably got us to the SB. Without that win the Championship game would have been in NE, not Denver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted January 24, 2018 Author Share Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) It’s only 1 throw but if any throw shows the issue better with Allen I don’t know: Full credit to @BroncoSojia for posting that in the NFL Draft Senior Bowl thread. Edited January 24, 2018 by Broncofan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncosFan2010 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Quote His OT game against the Pats pretty much should earn him some respect. Bringing us back from a 4th quarter 21-7 deficit to a 30-24 OT win probably got us to the SB. Without that win the Championship game would have been in NE, not Denver. Exactly. His draft position was (arguably) justified by that win alone. We don't win the Super Bowl if we have to play in Boston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoBruin Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 2 hours ago, BroncosFan2010 said: I just think a lot of this is revisionist history. Brock was liked because he was tall, mobile and had a cannon. Lynch was liked because he was tall, mobile and had a cannon. Now Allen is liked for those same reasons. Lynch had better production against better competition than Allen. There were very few indications of a poor work ethic coming out. As a prospect, they are very similar. If they were both in this draft, looking back on Lynch and his draft hype, they would likely be held in similar esteem. Osewiler was in a similar boat, but his issues of panicking in the pocket were explored a bit more as a prospect so he fell to R2. He was however a basketball caliber athlete with a powerful arm (But poor release, but that can be fixed right? Just like Allen's accuracy can easily be fixed? Right? Anyone?) and excellent mobility. These three guys share way, way more in common than they don't. Allen is the flavor of the month so eat him up while the underwear Olympics rages on but come draft time people will begin to explore his real issues, issues that happen during games not during practice and the combine, and he will be placed correctly a few tiers below Darnold, Rosen and Mayfield. Flawed but exciting QB prospects almost always get hype right about now, when memory of their in-season issues is fading and they begin to show their physical talent on a practice field or a combine session. Its almost always fools gold. Osweiler's arm was always average. I wondered from the beginning what people were seeing when they described a cannon, to me it was always a projection of his height and size. His athleticism and arm strength didn't compare to Lynch let alone Allen. To me, Kubiak is the one who doesn't get nearly enough credit for getting middling play at times from Osweiler and Siemian, who appear to be objectively awful quarterbacks. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 7 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said: To me, Kubiak is the one who doesn't get nearly enough credit for getting middling play at times from Osweiler and Siemian, who appear to be objectively awful quarterbacks. This is big facts. Kubiak is really going to be praised more as we get farther away from that SB win. Hopefully he can turn the FO around too lol 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 These things are not true the knock on lynch was inability to go through reada and immaturity. Allen has neither concern. Brock was just raw and bad he only threw bubble screens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 20 minutes ago, thebestever6 said: These things are not true the knock on lynch was inability to go through reada and immaturity. Allen has neither concern. Brock was just raw and bad he only threw bubble screens. I'm sorry but the big knock on Lynch was always accuracy. Same with Allen. Anymore when I hear questions about a QB's accuracy I just mentally erase him from a prospect list. I can't think of one QB in the last 30 or so draft classes that succeeded in the NFL with an accuracy issue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, AKRNA said: I'm sorry but the big knock on Lynch was always accuracy. Same with Allen. Anymore when I hear questions about a QB's accuracy I just mentally erase him from a prospect list. I can't think of one QB in the last 30 or so draft classes that succeeded in the NFL with an accuracy issue. Maybe I was asleep for that draft process. The stats I have are Lynch completed 63, and 68% of his passes the last two years of his college career. I know he was not a big recruit out of hs and had back issues. I know he had the best completion % under pressure between him Goff and Wentz. The only accuracy issues I heard were some time he loses out on yac yards because he fails to lead receivers. Lynch had great pocket awareness in college not so much now I think he's thinking to fast. Also Memphis was a one read or run offense. Now I do agree accuracy is the biggest issue for any qb. I think Bortles is a better comp. Allen and his prostyle offense intigues me. I love his work ethic and his want too. I am skeptical. I'm not saying he is wentz but wentz for being a natural thrower of the football only completed 58 or 59 % of his passes last year below league average. I do know he led the league in long passes with Watson so I can't hold that against him. Edited January 24, 2018 by thebestever6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.