Senior Bowl Week Observations

[thebestever6]

22 minutes ago, broncos67 said:

If we're concerned about development timelines, I'm not sure why Mayfield is the best option either. His "want to" is desirable, but he's never taken snaps under center. He's going to require a massive amount of development considering the offense he came from.

 

How does Philly do it? Lot of rpo shotgun. How do the rams do it shotgun. How do the Chiefs do it rpo shotgun. How do the texans do it with Watson?

Vance joseph said Mayfield is the best passer of the football out of rpo out there. Sometimes you got to fit the scheme to the players. 

[1234567]

3 hours ago, Broncofan said:

Between you, @champ11 & others who've expressed similar statements, we might have to have an ambulance nearby on Draft Night.  Or three.  

? oh don't worry, I'm gonna have our dispatch on standby

[BroncosFan2010]

I think people are also focusing too narrowly on accuracy when talking about Allen's issues. That's not his only issue. His footwork is bad, his decision making isn't great, he doesn't throw people open and he throws every pass like a fast ball (IE: No touch).

Jake Locker is a great comparison for Allen. Both were prototypical in size and athleticism, both could throw outside the pocket. Both hard good arms (Albeit Allen's arm is better). Both had accuracy issues, decision making issues, issues throwing touch on their pass and issues with footwork. And, notably, both had excellent work ethics but still simply could not overcome.

Josh Allen is the QB that a team like PIT should spend a low R1 on and develop to replace their HOF candidate in 1-2 years. He is NOT the QB that a team like Denver should take to throw directly into the fire. And if you think Elway is going to spend a R1 on a QB and sit him again, your off the rocker. He 100% wont do that with our 1.05, and I seriously, seriously doubt he would do that with our R2 either.

[broncos67]

20 hours ago, thebestever6 said:

How does Philly do it? Lot of rpo shotgun. How do the rams do it shotgun. How do the Chiefs do it rpo shotgun. How do the texans do it with Watson?

Vance joseph said Mayfield is the best passer of the football out of rpo out there. Sometimes you got to fit the scheme to the players. 

Yes, but you still need to be able to take snaps and operate under center. I'm not denying his skillset could be put to good use, but the other thing all the guys above you listed can do is adequately work from under center. 

[AnAngryAmerican]

24 minutes ago, broncos67 said:

Yes, but you still need to be able to take snaps and operate under center. I'm not denying his skillset could be put to good use, but the other thing all the guys above you listed can do is adequately work from under center. 

It’s also worth noting the NFL is not college, where you have 100 athletes on the rosters and 5 to 10 or so football players. NFL DCs will adapt to RPO and find ways to defend it and make it a fad scheme. How do the teams that go to and win Super Bowls do it - they have real quarterbacks who run real offenses, they can run the ball effectively when they need to and they have defenses that, even if they’re not the 2015 Broncos of 2014 Seahawks, make plays and get stops when they need to. 

@thebestever6 I know you really want us to draft a QB early and are a huge Mayfield fan. That’s all well and good, and there’s an argument to be made for that approach (its made on The Fan from 6am to 6pm every day). That said the way this franchise operates I’m not sure a developmental QB from who needs a lot of development is the ideal course. Guys like Allen and Mayfield might very well work in the NFL ... one day. They’re not ideal for teams in need of a quick fix, which we are. 

[thebestever6]

8 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

It’s also worth noting the NFL is not college, where you have 100 athletes on the rosters and 5 to 10 or so football players. NFL DCs will adapt to RPO and find ways to defend it and make it a fad scheme. How do the teams that go to and win Super Bowls do it - they have real quarterbacks who run real offenses, they can run the ball effectively when they need to and they have defenses that, even if they’re not the 2015 Broncos of 2014 Seahawks, make plays and get stops when they need to. 

@thebestever6 I know you really want us to draft a QB early and are a huge Mayfield fan. That’s all well and good, and there’s an argument to be made for that approach (its made on The Fan from 6am to 6pm every day). That said the way this franchise operates I’m not sure a developmental QB from who needs a lot of development is the ideal course. Guys like Allen and Mayfield might very well work in the NFL ... one day. They’re not ideal for teams in need of a quick fix, which we are. 

Serious question what opens our window the most. Kirk Cousins making 30 mill a year for 5 years. Or a franchise qb that will be here 10 to 15 years? 

For everyone saying Elway is looking for a quick fix did you watch the end of the year presser? I did and quick fix was the last impression I got. There's a disconnect between Elway and the fans. That's why things have been less transparent the last year or 2.

[jsthomp2007]

The thing that scares me most about Josh Allen.  1) That the Broncos draft him and he is a bust and the Broncos do it again, drafting based off the obvious measurables, and 2) that the Broncos don't draft Allen and he does turn out to be the second coming of Wentz.  

[thebestever6]

22 minutes ago, jsthomp2007 said:

The thing that scares me most about Josh Allen.  1) That the Broncos draft him and he is a bust and the Broncos do it again, drafting based off the obvious measurables, and 2) that the Broncos don't draft Allen and he does turn out to be the second coming of Wentz.  

The Broncos are to theres a reason they have spent 3 days installing offense. And not physical practices people were complaining about it

Edited January 26, 2018 by thebestever6

[broncos67]

4 hours ago, thebestever6 said:

Serious question what opens our window the most. Kirk Cousins making 30 mill a year for 5 years. Or a franchise qb that will be here 10 to 15 years? 

For everyone saying Elway is looking for a quick fix did you watch the end of the year presser? I did and quick fix was the last impression I got. There's a disconnect between Elway and the fans. That's why things have been less transparent the last year or 2.

But there's a separate element here. Cousins isn't a guaranteed SB ticket, but he is a known quantity. We know, based on past performances of his, what we can expect. Given that, you can build a team around his abilities with an eye towards the SB. The #5 pick is a lottery ticket. Yes, you could definitely get the 10-15 year starter, or you could whiff like we have in the past and be stuck in limbo. 5 years of guaranteed Top 10-12 play from Cousins (which is what it would be, lets not kid ourselves) might be more desirable than the alternative.

For the record, I think drafting and developing a young QB is a smarter move, but I think it's somewhat misleading to suggest 5 years of Cousins and the chance to win is a "short" timeframe. It's only short in comparison to the allure of a 15 year drafted franchise guy.

[BroncosFan2010]

Quote

For the record, I think drafting and developing a young QB is a smarter move, but I think it's somewhat misleading to suggest 5 years of Cousins and the chance to win is a "short" timeframe. It's only short in comparison to the allure of a 15 year drafted franchise guy.

Its also worth noting that Von Miller is likely to decline within 5 years, hell he probably starts declining within 2-3.

Cousins makes total sense with the defensive timeline taken into account. Wolfe, CH3, Von, etc. are all going to decline sooner than later. Having a franchise QB for 10-15 years is great, if you have talent around him. If not, your the Colts. We are not going to hit on a defense like this again overnight, so we might as well use it now. Hell, we don't even really have any promising young players that project to be as good as even Wolfe, much less CH3 or Von.

We have something right now, something that's already declining a bit but something nonetheless. NE may lose Brady in a week, or even a year. Pittsburg is going to lose Bell, and Ben may retire. Minny has a gaping hole at QB. Philly, Jax and LAR are upcoming teams, but none are juggernauts.

Adding Kirk, drafting 2-3 immediate contributors and signing some under the radar types can get us into Philly/Jax/LAR territory overnight. Then who knows what happens.

I don't know if we are a QB away from a Super Bowl but we are a QB away from running this division again.

[jsthomp2007]

1 hour ago, thebestever6 said:

The Broncos are to theres a reason they have spent 3 days installing offense. And not physical practices people were complaining about it

Ummm....????  Put down the sauce man. 

[broncofan48]

4 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

Its also worth noting that Von Miller is likely to decline within 5 years, hell he probably starts declining within 2-3.

Cousins makes total sense with the defensive timeline taken into account. Wolfe, CH3, Von, etc. are all going to decline sooner than later. Having a franchise QB for 10-15 years is great, if you have talent around him. If not, your the Colts. We are not going to hit on a defense like this again overnight, so we might as well use it now. Hell, we don't even really have any promising young players that project to be as good as even Wolfe, much less CH3 or Von.

We have something right now, something that's already declining a bit but something nonetheless. NE may lose Brady in a week, or even a year. Pittsburg is going to lose Bell, and Ben may retire. Minny has a gaping hole at QB. Philly, Jax and LAR are upcoming teams, but none are juggernauts.

Adding Kirk, drafting 2-3 immediate contributors and signing some under the radar types can get us into Philly/Jax/LAR territory overnight. Then who knows what happens.

I don't know if we are a QB away from a Super Bowl but we are a QB away from running this division again.

I agree.  And I think so does John:

 

Quote

“There are a lot more unknowns going into the draft than there is in free agency,’’ Elway said.

http://www.espn.com/blog/denver-broncos/post/_/id/30483/john-elway-offers-few-roster-guarantees-including-at-wide-receiver

 

Elway has been burned by the developmental QBs, and he knows the defense only has a few more years left.  I think he goes for Cousins.  Now whether or not Cousins wants to come here is a different story.  

[thebestever6]

34 minutes ago, broncos67 said:

But there's a separate element here. Cousins isn't a guaranteed SB ticket, but he is a known quantity. We know, based on past performances of his, what we can expect. Given that, you can build a team around his abilities with an eye towards the SB. The #5 pick is a lottery ticket. Yes, you could definitely get the 10-15 year starter, or you could whiff like we have in the past and be stuck in limbo. 5 years of guaranteed Top 10-12 play from Cousins (which is what it would be, lets not kid ourselves) might be more desirable than the alternative.

For the record, I think drafting and developing a young QB is a smarter move, but I think it's somewhat misleading to suggest 5 years of Cousins and the chance to win is a "short" timeframe. It's only short in comparison to the allure of a 15 year drafted franchise guy.

So your argument is lets go big in free agency for a guy that isn't worth the money all because Elway has no confidence in himself to find talent?

We will need  2 wrs in here slot and number 2 sanders is leaving.

An rb, guard, tackle, te maybe. Thats 5 needs on offense even with a qb.

Defense another pass rusher bc ray and Barrett will not both stay. An ilb, a nose tackle, a corner to replace talib hes gone. That's 4 needs not including a de if wolfe can't come back and walker doesnt develop.

9 needs total !! Thats insane.

Edited January 26, 2018 by thebestever6

[thebestever6]

15 minutes ago, jsthomp2007 said:

Ummm....????  Put down the sauce man. 

It was an article on bleacher report. Had a video too.  Showed Bill Musgrave going through  small miniscule things on offense. They are throwing a lot more at the qbs than a normal senior bowl. They are installing an offense not just a game plan.

It's almost  like they want to get these guys in their playbook now so come April when we land one they'll be less growing pains. Hopefully they can hit the ground running.

Quick questions of the guys at the senior bowl how many were picked by that coaching staff and succeeded?

[champ11]

45 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

 

I don't know if we are a QB away from a Super Bowl but we are a QB away from running this division again.

I'd say playoffs. I think the Chargers are set up incredibly well to succeed moving forward. Just depends on Rivers.