Senior Bowl Week Observations

[BroncosFan2010]

Quote

I'd say playoffs. I think the Chargers are set up incredibly well to succeed moving forward. Just depends on Rivers. 

Rivers is 36 so he likely has 2 more years. He has an enormous family so maybe he hangs them up early, but likely is too competitive for that.

But I agree, they are a very quality team moving forward. Their past few drafts have been tremendous. Wish we could draft like that

[champ11]

6 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

Rivers is 36 so he likely has 2 more years. He has an enormous family so maybe he hangs them up early, but likely is too competitive for that.

But I agree, they are a very quality team moving forward. Their past few drafts have been tremendous. Wish we could draft like that

Pass rush and corners man. They followed the formula. Also, Keenan Allen is so good. Really love watching him 

[BroncosFan2010]

A really inspiring guy is Shaquem Griffin. Kid only has one hand but is a tremendous talent. Obviously having one hand limits his INT potential but he is a nice middle round prospect as a coverage ILB. Its just hard to bet against the kid.

My favorite high energy, middle round coverage ILB is Skai Moore but Shaquem is #2. He is going to test very well athletically.

Probably falls to R6 or later due to the hand, but worth the gamble. Would be a top 100 pick if he had two hands IMO.

[broncos67]

1 hour ago, thebestever6 said:

So your argument is lets go big in free agency for a guy that isn't worth the money all because Elway has no confidence in himself to find talent?

We will need  2 wrs in here slot and number 2 sanders is leaving.

An rb, guard, tackle, te maybe. Thats 5 needs on offense even with a qb.

Defense another pass rusher bc ray and Barrett will not both stay. An ilb, a nose tackle, a corner to replace talib hes gone. That's 4 needs not including a de if wolfe can't come back and walker doesnt develop.

9 needs total !! Thats insane.

I mean, essentially, yes, that's what I'm saying. I don't necessarily agree with this approach, as I laid out above, but I could see this being a thing. We do have a lot of needs, which is a direct result of Elway's poor drafting. That said, we can't possibly address all in one offseason. QB, specifically having a good one, masks a LOT of other issues. Not saying it takes care of all of them, but it helps. That could be Elway's thinking.

[thebestever6]

2 minutes ago, broncos67 said:

I mean, essentially, yes, that's what I'm saying. I don't necessarily agree with this approach, as I laid out above, but I could see this being a thing. We do have a lot of needs, which is a direct result of Elway's poor drafting. That said, we can't possibly address all in one offseason. QB, specifically having a good one, masks a LOT of other issues. Not saying it takes care of all of them, but it helps. That could be Elway's thinking.

I just don't see just making the playoffs being a goal that is a building block.

[Broncofan]

3 hours ago, champ11 said:

Pass rush and corners man. They followed the formula. Also, Keenan Allen is so good. Really love watching him 

And they built up the OL with FA and the draft last year just can’t predict ACL to Forrest Lamp or their future C getting popped for PED’s .   They upgrade T get a run stuffing 4-3 DT and get Lamp back with Dan Feeney at G year 2 that’s a scary jump in trench strength. 

Edited January 26, 2018 by Broncofan

[Broncofan]

2 hours ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

A really inspiring guy is Shaquem Griffin. Kid only has one hand but is a tremendous talent. Obviously having one hand limits his INT potential but he is a nice middle round prospect as a coverage ILB. Its just hard to bet against the kid.

My favorite high energy, middle round coverage ILB is Skai Moore but Shaquem is #2. He is going to test very well athletically.

Probably falls to R6 or later due to the hand, but worth the gamble. Would be a top 100 pick if he had two hands IMO.

It’s ridiculous he hasn’t received a Combine invite.  350 players get an invite.  I know he doesn’t have 2 hands but man his skills are through the roof. 

[BroncosFan2010]

Quote

It’s ridiculous he hasn’t received a Combine invite.  350 players get an invite.  I know he doesn’t have 2 hands but man his skills are through the roof. 

Its really just preposterous. Not to mention looks bad from a HR point of view. If he was mediocre and people were upset he didn't make it, I would not care. You deserve to go, or you don't.

But if you deserve to go, and your a guy facing a legit disadvantage like Shaquem, then the Combine people sure as hell should make sure you get the invite because it looks extra bad. It looks like they wrote him off because of his hand, but the kid has a legitimate chance of overcoming that and should get a platform to show it.

It baffles me how clueless some large organizations can be. The NFL had free, positive exposure with a handicapped (Hate using that term as Shaquem is anything but) combine attendee who actually deserved to be there and they blew it. With all the crap swirling around and dividing people on the NFL this could have been a rare, universal moment of 'hey, well thats awesome'. And they blew it.

lolz at nfl

[elliot878]

On 1/25/2018 at 8:18 PM, broncos67 said:

Yes, but you still need to be able to take snaps and operate under center. I'm not denying his skillset could be put to good use, but the other thing all the guys above you listed can do is adequately work from under center. 

Honestly, I'll never understand the "hasn't taken snaps under center" argument.  The footwork for a drop back is not hard.  A weeks worth of taking snaps and dropping back and any elite level athlete will be perfectly comfortable.  Footwork drills are common place in any sports training these days, learning this footwork is not going to be a sweat for any pro level prospect.  It's the most nit-picky thing ever to me.

Where it gets messy is going through that footwork of a drop back and trusting that when you reach your final step, you'll be in a safe position.  In other words, whoever the QB is, get them a right tackle and their odds of success will be far greater.

[elliot878]

On 1/25/2018 at 9:57 AM, BroncosFan2010 said:

I think people are also focusing too narrowly on accuracy when talking about Allen's issues. That's not his only issue. His footwork is bad, his decision making isn't great, he doesn't throw people open and he throws every pass like a fast ball (IE: No touch).

Jake Locker is a great comparison for Allen. Both were prototypical in size and athleticism, both could throw outside the pocket. Both hard good arms (Albeit Allen's arm is better). Both had accuracy issues, decision making issues, issues throwing touch on their pass and issues with footwork. And, notably, both had excellent work ethics but still simply could not overcome.

Josh Allen is the QB that a team like PIT should spend a low R1 on and develop to replace their HOF candidate in 1-2 years. He is NOT the QB that a team like Denver should take to throw directly into the fire. And if you think Elway is going to spend a R1 on a QB and sit him again, your off the rocker. He 100% wont do that with our 1.05, and I seriously, seriously doubt he would do that with our R2 either.

 

It took 5 pages, but someone finally pointed out what huge armed QB's must have to succeed, TOUCH!  I really don't care how big a guys arm is, every QB is going to throw more short to intermediate balls than deep balls, and if you're not connecting at a high percentage on those throws, you're not going to move the chains.  Everything I hear of Josh Allen is that he has insane velocity, but if he tries throwing short, he sails it over his receivers heads.  This name hasn't been brought up, but that's Cam Newton in a nutshell.  Cam's arm is insane but he has no touch, at all.  I'd say Allen's ceiling as a thrower is Cam Newton, but he doesn't have the other half of Cam's game that makes Cam a franchise QB.

Count me in on calling for Elway's job if he takes Josh Allen over Darnold, Rosen, or Mayfield.  That will set the franchise back another 3-5 years.

[elliot878]

On 1/25/2018 at 8:50 PM, AnAngryAmerican said:

It’s also worth noting the NFL is not college, where you have 100 athletes on the rosters and 5 to 10 or so football players. NFL DCs will adapt to RPO and find ways to defend it and make it a fad scheme. How do the teams that go to and win Super Bowls do it - they have real quarterbacks who run real offenses, they can run the ball effectively when they need to and they have defenses that, even if they’re not the 2015 Broncos of 2014 Seahawks, make plays and get stops when they need to. 

@thebestever6 I know you really want us to draft a QB early and are a huge Mayfield fan. That’s all well and good, and there’s an argument to be made for that approach (its made on The Fan from 6am to 6pm every day). That said the way this franchise operates I’m not sure a developmental QB from who needs a lot of development is the ideal course. Guys like Allen and Mayfield might very well work in the NFL ... one day. They’re not ideal for teams in need of a quick fix, which we are. 

Why are we in need of a quick fix?  I know Elway's game plan in roster building is always a quick turnaround, a reload rather than a rebuild, but this roster isn't good.  Our defense is only elite at 1.5 positions (2/2 cornerbacks, 1/2 outside linebackers).  The DL isn't talented enough to compete against the late stage playoff teams, our linebackers can't cover, there's easy mismatches for any team with a good TE or pass catching back.  The offense is a dumpster fire, we've got a couple good receivers who are aging, no TE, no OL, no QB, meh at RB.  This roster isn't close to competing for anything meaningful.

If anything, Elway should shy away from drafting a QB because he can't evaluate QB prospects.  I'm more comfortable with the "go with what you know" approach when it comes to Elway, and we know Cousins is a solid NFL QB ... whose still never won jack.  We won't have the money for him anyway, so I guess it doesn't matter.

 

[elliot878]

21 hours ago, broncofan48 said:

I agree.  And I think so does John:

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/denver-broncos/post/_/id/30483/john-elway-offers-few-roster-guarantees-including-at-wide-receiver

 

Elway has been burned by the developmental QBs, and he knows the defense only has a few more years left.  I think he goes for Cousins.  Now whether or not Cousins wants to come here is a different story.  

 

With what money?  There's no space to make that work.  Way too tight against the cap to pay a guy $25m per.  And if we find a way to do it, no money to plug all the other leaks this roster has - and there are lots of leaks.

 

When we signed Manning to the huge deal we were coming off a couple solid drafts, and had premier talent on cheap rookie deals.  Because of this there was room to plug the remaining holes and surround Manning with the talent to reach the SB.  We don't have elite talent on rookie contracts like we did when we signed Manning.  We had Demaryius Thomas, Malik Jackson, Von Miller, Chris Harris, all playing at a level at or near the top of their positions for rookie money.  I can't name a single player on this roster who is on their rookie contract and playing at the top level of their position, not one.  That's why Cousins can't happen.

[elliot878]

As for the prospects and Sr. Bowl.  Everything I've read is that Baker Mayfield is running circles around Josh Allen.  No surprise.  If you can't crack a 60% completion % in the mountain west, I don't have a lot of hope for you.  I agree with those saying that if we choose Allen, we're repeating the same mistake we've made in QB evaluation twice now with Elway.  Give me a natural thrower, not a bag of tools.

As far as any Baker Mayfield comparisons to Manziel, I don't get it.  There's a huge difference between those two that I haven't seen pointed out, Manziel bought into his own hype, whereas Baker has a huge chip on his shoulder, and works his butt off to prove people wrong.  Getting drunk in college doesn't make you Johnny Manziel, it makes you 98% of college kids.

Idk if I like Mayfield over Rosen and Darnold yet, I haven't done enough evaluating, but I do know that I like him over Allen.

 

[thebestever6]

5 minutes ago, elliot878 said:

As for the prospects and Sr. Bowl.  Everything I've read is that Baker Mayfield is running circles around Josh Allen.  No surprise.  If you can't crack a 60% completion % in the mountain west, I don't have a lot of hope for you.  I agree with those saying that if we choose Allen, we're repeating the same mistake we've made in QB evaluation twice now with Elway.  Give me a natural thrower, not a bag of tools.

As far as any Baker Mayfield comparisons to Manziel, I don't get it.  There's a huge difference between those two that I haven't seen pointed out, Manziel bought into his own hype, whereas Baker has a huge chip on his shoulder, and works his butt off to prove people wrong.  Getting drunk in college doesn't make you Johnny Manziel, it makes you 98% of college kids.

Idk if I like Mayfield over Rosen and Darnold yet, I haven't done enough evaluating, but I do know that I like him over Allen.

 

This is exactly where I'm at. No Cousins we need cap space. Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield all draftable not sure where but definitely first round range. I'd also like to look at and work Lamar Jackson out. I know people talk about injuries but being as pliable as Gumby will help. If he's a taller right handed second coming of vick with better passing skills coming in sign me up. At least scout him.

Last guy but not least Kyle Loutta Richmond is also and intriguing guy. I hear comps to Jimmy G. Even if we signed cousins hopefully we have and out after two years and develop this guy. Ideal situation. 

[BroncoBruin]

This game could fit right into our 2017 season. Still undefeated in practice though.