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Fragafootball

Cheaper Options

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So it seems that the two biggest decisions for our Front Office regarding expiring contracts this off season is regarding Sammy Watkins and Trumaine Johnson. 

I think resigning Lamarcus Joyner is a no brainer. 

So do you guys think there will be better options on the market? Options that may cost less than those two or just better players in general.

CB:

1. Malcom Butler, probably cost about the same, but I think he would cost less than Tru and he is the better player.

2. Aqib Talib, veteran had his best seasons under Wade Phillips, he isn't a free agent but all signs point to the Broncos cutting or trading him, I think he immediately upgrades the position.

3. Kyle Fuller, great season with the Bears, wouldn't cost too much and has tremendous upside, 

4.DJ Hayden, had a good season in Detroit, plenty of upside

WR:

1. Jimmy Graham. ok so he isn't a WR but reinvesting the cap space used on Sammy might be enough to bring in the veteran TE that's torched us for years. He's a great option up the middle, we could still get a cheap speedster for the deep routes or bet the farm on Woods, Kupp and Reynolds and try to find someone in the draft

2.Donte Moncrief. had a terrible year in Indy which should make him relatively cheap, but let's remember how useful he was with Luck under center

3.Paul Richardson, speedy WR, young, plenty of upside 

4. Desean Jackson, now he's my favorite for a true WR1, not sure how the Bucs are gonna handle him. He's earning 11 million a year and didn't play up to the price tag last year. He might be available. Pairing him with McVay again in our offense makes us the most explosive offense in the NFL by far.

5.Danny Amendola, come back home Danny. Doesn't have the blazing speed he once had in St. Louis, but sure handed and playoff pedigree. Kind of in the same mold of the Graham signing, it means we don't have a true WR1 but did we ever in 2017? Yet it works, he should be pretty cheap, been taking pay cuts for year in the evil empire, what a great option to have with all of the youth we have at the position. 

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Just gonna say...Amendola never had blazing speed. I'd say go Talib and Richardson.

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Anybody but Talib. Don't care if he fits the system, I can't root for that POS.

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For CB: I like Fuller, but if I'm not mistaken, he plays a lot more off-man coverage, which is not what our corners do under Phillips' system. I also think he resigns with Chicago. Talib is talented and an obvious fit, but his best years are behind him and I think he's a cancer. This is a young team that finally seems like it has the right mindset and attitude. A guy like him can tear that apart in an instant. I think Butler is the best option among them, but I worry about how well he fares on a team other than New England. I'm really just hoping that we sign Tru.

I want nothing to do with Graham. I've seen his name brought up on this forum a few times now and I'm not understanding why. We just spent our highest pick in the draft on Everett, who we knew was going to take a minute to get going. He was inconsistent in his first year, but he had several big time plays. Rookie TE's never come in and produce at a high level right away. Higbee played solid in his second year and I see him continuing to do so going forward. I like what we have at TE.

For WR: I would cross Amendola off that list right away. I don't think he leaves NE and I don't know where he'd play on our team, with Kupp having that slot receiver spot locked down. Add in the fact that Amendola is getting older and could never stay healthy to begin with, I'll say pass. D-Jax didn't produce this year, but that entire Bucs offense was guilty of the same. I don't expect them to part ways yet. Besides, he's another one that I'm unsure of how much left he's got in the tank. Moncrief is just eh for me. I like Paul Richardson though and do think he'd be a good option if it came down to that. He's another one who's name I've seen thrown around a few times and I'm not against the idea. I think his best football is still ahead of him.

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Just to clarify my stance on Graham:

He's obviously a great talent at the TE position, but with us having two young talented TE's already, we need to spend our money elsewhere. Graham is going to command a lot of money--wherever it is he lands. Simply put, we've got too many of our own that are a priority to re-sign to be throwing a ton of cash at what would be an overpriced luxury. I'm not concerned with our TE corp at all.

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I  dont see us spending much in Free Agency outside of our own guys this offseason. We have plenty of big name/money  guys to worry about, and I think we want to bring them all back. The two biggest questions are Watkins and Tru, and honestly I dont know where the "let Tru walk" contingent has suddenly come from, because he was a key part to this defense all year.

Plus we have the topper, that whatever excess cap room we end up with in 2018, should all be going to the front-loaded portion of Donalds new contract.

I would rely on our young talent to step up, and supplement with some veteran guys who can help when it comes to the playoffs. And take the high supplemental pick for Sammy

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2 hours ago, BEASToftheEAST4 said:

For CB: I like Fuller, but if I'm not mistaken, he plays a lot more off-man coverage, which is not what our corners do under Phillips' system. I also think he resigns with Chicago. Talib is talented and an obvious fit, but his best years are behind him and I think he's a cancer. This is a young team that finally seems like it has the right mindset and attitude. A guy like him can tear that apart in an instant. I think Butler is the best option among them, but I worry about how well he fares on a team other than New England. I'm really just hoping that we sign Tru.

I want nothing to do with Graham. I've seen his name brought up on this forum a few times now and I'm not understanding why. We just spent our highest pick in the draft on Everett, who we knew was going to take a minute to get going. He was inconsistent in his first year, but he had several big time plays. Rookie TE's never come in and produce at a high level right away. Higbee played solid in his second year and I see him continuing to do so going forward. I like what we have at TE.

For WR: I would cross Amendola off that list right away. I don't think he leaves NE and I don't know where he'd play on our team, with Kupp having that slot receiver spot locked down. Add in the fact that Amendola is getting older and could never stay healthy to begin with, I'll say pass. D-Jax didn't produce this year, but that entire Bucs offense was guilty of the same. I don't expect them to part ways yet. Besides, he's another one that I'm unsure of how much left he's got in the tank. Moncrief is just eh for me. I like Paul Richardson though and do think he'd be a good option if it came down to that. He's another one who's name I've seen thrown around a few times and I'm not against the idea. I think his best football is still ahead of him.

A glaring need is depth at CB. We struggled with that this year. Not sure how Webster is gonna bounce back and while I love NRC he is a nickel DB. We need to add someone. 

My issues isn't with Trumaine, he had a great year. But he is going to take up a lot of cap room if we resign him. My thought was to acquire two cheaper options or one alternative and clear up more room to resign Donald. I also didn't get a lot of confidence from what Snead said regarding him. Something along the lines of "We need to look at who fits Phillips scheme." I am not sure Trumaine is that good of a fit to pay him 13 million a year. 

If we can get something for Watkins I would move on. He really let me down this year and the inconsistency is too much, injury or no. But I do feel like we need some experience in our receiver corp. I like the upside in Josh Reynolds, but I wouldn't bet the farm on him. Look at how much Jeffrey's presence added to the Eagles receivers. I think we need that guy that will force coverage somehow. This doesn't seem to be a very good year for WRs in free agency or the draft, which is why betting on Graham at TE makes sense to me.

I agree that we have talented young TEs but McVay did go and get Carrier for a reason. I am all for developing Higbee and Everett but a playmaker at the position puts us at another level. We have the youth and talent going for us, makes me very hopeful for our future. But we do need a little more experience for those big games. 

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20 hours ago, Fragafootball said:

A glaring need is depth at CB. We struggled with that this year. Not sure how Webster is gonna bounce back and while I love NRC he is a nickel DB. We need to add someone. 

My issues isn't with Trumaine, he had a great year. But he is going to take up a lot of cap room if we resign him. My thought was to acquire two cheaper options or one alternative and clear up more room to resign Donald. I also didn't get a lot of confidence from what Snead said regarding him. Something along the lines of "We need to look at who fits Phillips scheme." I am not sure Trumaine is that good of a fit to pay him 13 million a year. 

If we can get something for Watkins I would move on. He really let me down this year and the inconsistency is too much, injury or no. But I do feel like we need some experience in our receiver corp. I like the upside in Josh Reynolds, but I wouldn't bet the farm on him. Look at how much Jeffrey's presence added to the Eagles receivers. I think we need that guy that will force coverage somehow. This doesn't seem to be a very good year for WRs in free agency or the draft, which is why betting on Graham at TE makes sense to me.

I agree that we have talented young TEs but McVay did go and get Carrier for a reason. I am all for developing Higbee and Everett but a playmaker at the position puts us at another level. We have the youth and talent going for us, makes me very hopeful for our future. But we do need a little more experience for those big games. 

McVay going to get Carrier was to get a TE with some proven blocking skills--just about the opposite of what Graham brings to the table. I strongly disagree with the idea of signing Graham, not to mention I think it's completely unrealistic. Our top two TE's have each been drafted in the past two years. I want to see what they’re capable of with a full year or two under their belts--and I'm sure the coaching staff/FO does too. Again, Graham would command way too much money that we need to use on our own priority FA's. Not to mention, I really don't think he adds THAT much more to our offense. I really liked the flashes I saw from Everett.

This isn't a good draft for WR. With that said, I don't think it's a position we're looking at drafting at all--something that hasn't been said for this team for seemingly a decade. I'm not sold on Watkins either and I don't want to throw the kitchen sink at him to bring him back, but signing Graham only hinders the development of our own young, talented TE's...it doesn't help the WR corp.

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Also, IIRC, the comment Snead made about Tru was prior to the season starting. I think we all saw that he was a great fit in Wade Phillips' defense. While he didn't put up the INT's he has in the past, IMO he was a better fit in this defense than in years prior. Unless he's asking for outrageous money, he should be one of the main three priorities heading into this offseason (the other two being re-signing Joyner and extending Donald). He knows this defense. He's familiar with the team. He's also a great locker room presence--he was a team captain this past season. Corner is a big need of ours already as it is--we're in agreement for that. Losing Trumaine Johnson would make us pretty desperate at the position pretty quickly.

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Also don't forget about Temarrick Hemingway. Was making waves in camp before he broke his ankle. I think he could be an unexpected element to this offense next year.

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@LARams91That is true Hemingway looked like a stud in camp. 

 

But @BEASToftheEAST4 losing Watkins leaves a hole that needs to be filled. I understand and even agree with a lot of your arguments against signing Graham. But in regards to our receiver corp. I think experience is key. We need someone to stretch the field, if nothing else. The market is pretty thin. I am not sold on Watkins being that guy.  

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We are in agreement on not being sold on Watkins--I don't think it's unfair to suggest that's the majority of everyone's opinion on here. But I would like to see him back at least for one more year to see what kind of improvement he could make. That being said, I don't want him bad enough if it means not bringing one of our other key players back. Either way, yes we either need him back or a suitable replacement. Who that could be seems to be where our opinions differ. 

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I'd be fairly happy with Richardson as a cheaper replacement for Watkins, thus allowing us to save cap and resign Donald/Joyner.   I'd also be very happy with Butler here, but, I'm sure he'd cost us a ton and not sure we have the cap to handle that.  I'd take a shot at Fuller, Hayden has never really impressed me.

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Here are my thoughts:

WR:

Paul Richardson - Has had some injuries, but I think he's trending up. Could be a great value signing if Watkins moves on.

Jeff Janis - Could be an interesting flier due to his athleticism. At minimum, he's a good special teamer.

John Brown - The injuries and sickle cell trait are an issue, but he can absolutely fly. Would be an interesting low-cost flier.

Jordan Matthews - Probably not an ideal fit because both Kupp and him are more natural in the slot.

Mike Wallace - He's an aging speed WR. I'd be worried about when he'll lose enough steps to stop being useful.

Torrey Smith - He really fell off fast. I wonder if his career could be revived. He's certainly fast.

ILB:

Todd Davis - Stepped up and really improved this year. He's definitely a run stopper with some coverage limitations. Shouldn't be too expensive if Wade wants him.

Avery Williamson - Bigger LB who had a nice year in Tennessee. He's also a run plugger with some coverage deficiencies.

Preston Brown - Had a great year for the Bills. He's a solid all-around LB who is at his best stopping the run.

Tahir Whitehead - Here's another guy who had a nice year. Again, he's more of a run-stopper, which is what we need.

OLB:

Trent Murphy - He'd be an interesting guy to bring in on a "prove it" deal. High-effort guy who has shown some ability to get to the QB. Could take Barwin's spot.

Aaron Lynch - He's always been extraordinarily talented, and many thought he was on his way to becoming an impact edge rusher, but he's disappeared. Has always had character issues.

Jerry Attaochu - Had a nice season in SD in 2015 and was a second round pick with edge rushing talent, but he's disappeared since then.

Junior Gallette - Has consistently been plagued by injuries for years now. He was once a feared edge rusher.

CB:

Aqib Talib - He'd be a great fit here. I'd love to add him.

Aaron Colvin - I think he has untapped potential and could thrive with greater responsibilities. Versatile player who has the size to play outside and the quickness to play in the slot.

Bashaud Breeland - Young player who has shown flashes of greatness in Washington. He's been a bit inconsistent, but I think Washington has done a poor job of utilizing him properly. I think he'd fit nicely here.

Prince Amukamara - He's making a career out of being a good #2. But he hasn't landed that big payday yet because of his injury history.

Kyle Fuller - He's always been talented, and he's finally starting to live up to it.

Morris Claiborne - Very talented in M2M coverage but he's always injured.

Rashaan Melvin - Had a nice year in Indy, but I wouldn't offer him more than a "prove it" deal due to the injury.

Vontae Davis - Has a history of very good play, but he struggled this year. He might be worth a flier because he was playing through an injury.

Edited by jrry32

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