Trade for Brown

[VigilantZombie]

9 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

I have a feeling we will be able to grab one of these cap casualties this year. I have no proof that there will be any ILBs that are worth much who'll get cut but I have a feeling some might be. Maybe Sean Lee?

I'm telling you this, while I don't expect that, if we got Sean Lee....I'd be f'n ecstatic

[CKSteeler]

On 1/23/2018 at 11:54 PM, Chieferific said:

I'm not sure I see it that way. They've spent more picks on Defense than on Offense. The Offensive players have just panned out better therefore have gotten the bigger contracts. That's a FO/Scouting issue. They've never been a player in FA and the ones they do sign are Mid-Tier players. We all know that. I do agree they could change there strategy a bit and explore other ways of getting solid Vets or even a big name FA here and there. However, I think they've done a fairly good job of not overpaying "stars". They didn't cave with Bell or Timmons amongst others. I'm not sure who you feel is getting overpaid. Maybe Pouncey. Who else? 

They kept Timmons for three contracts and he was one of its highest paid players that entire time. One of the highest paid ILB's in the league.

Meanwhile, according to Bell, the two are far closer than last year in terms of the numbers.

Foster is a guy they keep around even though they have a perfectly capable back-up who may in fact be the better player already. They're paying both tackles. It's a unit that has all second contract guys and two among the highest paid in the league at their positions. Decastro is actually one of the highest paid OL period. Do I want to dismantle the OL? No. But it's one spot they could and should be able to save money. The Pats hire people to coach the OL up and they have a simple and coherent strategy for identifying the players they like (it's the opposite of Tomlin who goes for, predictably, athleticism). They have a revolving door at the position, yet seem to do just fine.

Discounting the QB position, the Steelers top 5 highest paid players account for roughly $66.5 million against the cap compared to $52.3 million for the Patriots. That difference is 3-4 veteran players elsewhere on the roster alone, or a free agent splash per year like Gilmore who, despite some early struggles, has come up big when they needed him the most. It gets uglier after that. I mean, Mike Mitchell counts over $8 million against the cap this year. That's closer to McCourty than it is Harmon or Chung who are probably both superior players. Their pay is closer to Golden's - a guy who can't even be in the right place at the right time, but inexplicably still sees the field.

As good as Antonio Brown is, is he worth almost as much as what the Patriots pay Gronkowski and Cooks?

But maybe it's not even the talent or make-up of the roster. Because I'm pretty sure Tuitt and Heyward would be even better players in NE. I can't imagine giving Belichick those two on his DL and watching them get shredded on the ground by Jacksonville. $26 million on DE's, and people are complaining about the Steelers losing Shazier. The Patriots are paying their starting front not even a 1/5th of that and somehow make it work when it matters. Tyson Alualu would be one of the highest paid front 7 players they have.

You want to have a top heavy roster like Tomlin does? You better maximize what those guys can do and make sure they're impacting games. Especially the big ones. And we don't see that anywhere near enough. We get to watch the offense sputter typically for half a season before finding some sort of rhythm. Because that's just a trend now. And this year we had one of the ugliest defensive collapses I've seen. Not just against Jacksonville, but from the start of the Green Bay game on. You know, before Shazier even went down.

[Dcash4]

In all honesty, find me another example of a team that does it the way the Patriots do it -- and do it to success -- and I will consider the fact that we pay good players an issue.

You are talking about the single greatest evaluator of NFL talent in Bill Belichick. He will go down as the GOAT of coaching who happens to have the GOAT at the single most important position in football as well. Belichick is one of the greatest defensive minds in the sport. He is a master of evaluating skills that players have and creating a defense around those skills and putting them in positions to eliminate or minimize their flaws. Trade the Patriots defense with any other coach and do you think they are perennial top 8 squads? Same to be said about the offense and Brady -- change the QB and those flaws will come out. 

Those two are the reasons they can take lower end players, pay them less and have continued success. Their talents and abilities raise others up make up for the lack of roster talent. New England is in for a world of hurt the years of Post Brady and Belichick because the steps down from those two particular will be massive. 

If it was as simple as saying "Well, the Patriots do it this way" than 31 others teams would be in the same boat....but they aren't because there is only one Brady and one Belichick-- and they have them both. 

[CKSteeler]

So, Belichick is one of the game's top talent evaluators, but they aren't a top 8 roster? You also missed the point of a post that was almost entirely about how the roster is constructed and how players are evaluated.

So, I'll ask again - as great as Brown is, is he worth almost as much as Gronkowski and Cooks combined? Then you want to pay Bell on that same level? It is, once again, embarrassing how people act like these two are demigods as if it takes a real genius to assign dollar values to production and even positional groups. There's a reason Belichick has loved TE's, and why he's undervalued WR and RB.

And I'm willing to bet that if Belichick did end up paying a RB and WR a combined $30 million as the Steelers probably will, they'd be putting up historical numbers. Not as individuals, mind you. But as a unit. Have the Steelers been doing that? The answer is no. And when Belichick hasn't been able to turn a unit around or senses a trend, he is on the ball and adapts. He lost to the Broncos in the AFCCG and saw the Seahawks secondary dominate the NFC for a few years. So what did he do? He found a way to buy himself a secondary, and built his defense around them. It didn't take the league's greatest football mind to go out and sign to press CB's. I mean, Pete Carroll and John Elway basically beat him to the punch already. Belichick identified an issue his team had, saw the competition, and he adapted.

Bill Walsh competed against the likes of Parcells and Gibbs. Hell, Landry was still kicking around at the start of that dynasty. Belichick and Brady compete against Mike Tomlin and Tony Dungy - neither of whom will ever be mentioned in the same breath with those two. Maybe the problem really is that the other 31 teams just haven't been able to consistently offer up much of anything in terms of answers.

No one expects Tomlin and Colbert to be the Patriots. Or as good. Some of us do expect them to at least compete with them consistently. They haven't managed that. Asking them to be flexible and a bit more intelligent is apparently too much for some of you.

Right now, they're the guys who were both Tebow'ed and Bortled.

36 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

New England is in for a world of hurt the years of Post Brady and Belichick because the steps down from those two particular will be massive.

I'd wager they lose Brady, and  will be just fine. But of course without both they're probably going to be in a world of hurt. Not exactly a bold statement.

You talk about these great flaws with the Patriots offense. As if Tom Brady alone can get production of those guys as if we haven't seen other QB's step under center there and execute at a fairly high level. Higher than Landry Jones when he's not playing the Browns. I didn't see NE's OL fall apart without Brady. I didn't see their WR's fall on their faces without him. Gronkowski is a transcendent talent. Cooks is a very good WR and was that before he was in NE. Amendola had talent before he got there, but had injury issues.

Meanwhile, the Steelers in 2005 won a Super Bowl with Cedrick Wilson starting at WR across from Hines Ward. And who can forget Quincy Morgan? Everyone accept Champ Bailey, probably. Why? Because they let Burress walk. They had a UDFA RB in Willie Parker on a rookie contract. In 2008, they had the dynamic duo of Mewelde Moore and Garry Russell at RB along with Hines Ward, a sometimes sober Santonio Holmes and the legendary Nate Washington. And, oh yea, the worst OL in NFL history to ever earn a ring.

Seattle won championships with no names at WR. But only Tom Brady can do it!

I'm not saying I'm not glad to have Antonio Brown. I'd pay him way before I'd pay a RB like Bell. But this mindset needs to change because it isn't working. And just doing the same thing harder next time and hoping for better injury luck isn't the answer. You can lose with these guys just as well as you can lose without them. So, somehow, someway, find the resources to improve this team. That might mean not overpaying your RB with multiple knee injuries and an excessive workload almost twice what any other RB is currently making.

[Alex]

Man, I agree with major points y'all said. We need to change our approach. While Wilcox didn't exactly worked out, Vance McDonald sure did and that's something I'd like to see us do. Take risks! Trust the players more.