Broncos rumors

[broncos_fan _from _uk]

As for why I wouldn’t take any of the other QBs in the 1st it’s because they played in a spread in college meaning they will take a couple years to learn the game. Not just footwork but simply how to read a D. The wide hash marks in college make it so that a QB can effectively see ~70% of the field without turning their heads. So college OCs have orchestrated offenses that are simplified and takes advantage of that. 

In the NFL you can’t do that, the narrow hash marks require a QB to make multiple distinct reads, quickly. 

Thats why OCs can make a college style O that works initially but never for more than a year. It’s also what makes me so impressed with Keenum. He worked his *** off to learn his craft. But it took years of development. Something a 1st round pick doesn’t get. 

I would love to spend a third on Rudolph, Lauletta, or Faulk if they fall that far.

[thebestever6]

33 minutes ago, broncos_fan _from _uk said:

In a bubble? Absolutely. However my gut says he’s out of the league in 5 years. He has never been able to stay healthy, has a long concussion history (and a neuro spine surgeon father who knows the damages repeated concussions cause), a playing style similar to Big Ben where he stands tall in the pocket and takes the hit to make a play but a body type that doesn’t survive that beating, add in a questionable love of the game and I just see a kid who tears it up the first half of every season but finishes on the IR (ala sam Bradford) and retires early after a series of concussions. Love the kids game but I wouldn’t draft him.

 

I have Darnold and Allen as 1a/1b and honestly the only 1st round QBs.

Both have the athleticism. Both are football junkies who by all accounts love the grind required to be great. Both are natural leaders. Both read the field well.

Both are sight (vs anticipation) throwers. Both have huge red flags (turnovers vs accuracy) that historically have been difficult to fix in the NFL.

I am more willing to forgive a QB for poor accuracy/turnovers if it’s the result of playing with lesser quality teammates and trying to make a play, so that’s probably why I have Allen higher than most people.

Honestly I think whichever one the Browns/Jets don’t take will have the best career.

Thats a fair assessment.  I think if you go rosen you have to maks every investment to protect him.  How many concussions did Rosen have?

[Broncofan]

41 minutes ago, broncos_fan _from _uk said:

In a bubble? Absolutely. However my gut says he’s out of the league in 5 years. He has never been able to stay healthy, has a long concussion history (and a neuro spine surgeon father who knows the damages repeated concussions cause), a playing style similar to Big Ben where he stands tall in the pocket and takes the hit to make a play but a body type that doesn’t survive that beating, add in a questionable love of the game and I just see a kid who tears it up the first half of every season but finishes on the IR (ala sam Bradford) and retires early after a series of concussions. Love the kids game but I wouldn’t draft him.

 

I have Darnold and Allen as 1a/1b and honestly the only 1st round QBs.

Both have the athleticism. Both are football junkies who by all accounts love the grind required to be great. Both are natural leaders. Both read the field well.

Both are sight (vs anticipation) throwers. Both have huge red flags (turnovers vs accuracy) that historically have been difficult to fix in the NFL.

I am more willing to forgive a QB for poor accuracy/turnovers if it’s the result of playing with lesser quality teammates and trying to make a play, so that’s probably why I have Allen higher than most people.

Honestly I think whichever one the Browns/Jets don’t take will have the best career.

FWIW there's risk with Rosen for sure given his concussions - but the way QB's are protected nowadays, the risk is mitigated with true pocket passers.  Leaving the pocket puts them at the highest risk.   The concern is that our T's won't protect a pocket QB enough, and it's certainly a legit beef.   But the one position where the ectomorph body style can survive is QB - Matt Ryan, Eli & Goff have very similar physical profiles (Shoulder is still a risk, but again, he's more protected than anyone else).

[broncos_fan _from _uk]

44 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

FWIW there's risk with Rosen for sure given his concussions - but the way QB's are protected nowadays, the risk is mitigated with true pocket passers.  Leaving the pocket puts them at the highest risk.   The concern is that our T's won't protect a pocket QB enough, and it's certainly a legit beef.   But the one position where the ectomorph body style can survive is QB - Matt Ryan, Eli & Goff have very similar physical profiles (Shoulder is still a risk, but again, he's more protected than anyone else).

You’re right that they have similar body styles, but the get rid of the ball quickly. Rosen tends to hold onto the ball, like Luck or Big Ben. The kids tough as nails and willing to take the hit. His body hasn’t proven able to stand up to it though. Maybe that can be coached out of him, but that’s an instinct thing. It’s weird to fault the kid for it because in Darnold or Allen I’d be touting it as a positive, but again his body has proven unable to hold up to it.

i hope he proves me wrong, I just know that if I were in Elway’s shoes I’d pass. Maybe if I traded back with buffalo and got a second 1st and he was still there at 12 I’d gamble but at 5? That’s a no for me

[CWood21]

23 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

How would you guys feel about that?  We get Sam Darnold, who I think most around here really like, but we have to give up, say our first 3rd rounder for him?  Or a swap of 40 for 64? 

You can probably put that pipe to bed.  Sam Darnold is reportedly the top QB on both New York teams' big boards, so they'd both jump at the opportunity to take Darnold.

[Broncofan]

15 minutes ago, broncos_fan _from _uk said:

You’re right that they have similar body styles, but the get rid of the ball quickly. Rosen tends to hold onto the ball, like Luck or Big Ben. The kids tough as nails and willing to take the hit. His body hasn’t proven able to stand up to it though. Maybe that can be coached out of him, but that’s an instinct thing. It’s weird to fault the kid for it because in Darnold or Allen I’d be touting it as a positive, but again his body has proven unable to hold up to it.

i hope he proves me wrong, I just know that if I were in Elway’s shoes I’d pass. Maybe if I traded back with buffalo and got a second 1st and he was still there at 12 I’d gamble but at 5? That’s a no for me

Thing about Rosen holding on to the ball - IMO it’s a reflection of playing on bad UCLA teams.  He’s shown so much anticipation, accuracy, timing and ball placement - which are the skills that translate most to NFL success.  

The injury risk is the one legit concern with him.  The rest IMO is classic draft evaluation lying season / groupthink.   

[Scoundrel]

MHR passing along the rumor that if Denver trades down they want LVE.

LVE has one year of production and injury issues. Not a huge fan of that move at 12. Maybe 22. But even then that’s earlier than I have him ranked. 

[AnAngryAmerican]

19 minutes ago, Counselor said:

MHR passing along the rumor that if Denver trades down they want LVE.

LVE has one year of production and injury issues. Not a huge fan of that move at 12. Maybe 22. But even then that’s earlier than I have him ranked. 

I have a hard time seeing how drafting him makes sense. We re-signed Todd Davis, Brandon Marshall is entrenched as a starter and we traded for S'ua Cravens. Drafting an ILB in the first round would be hard to justify. I mean I get that Davis and Marshall are both liabilities in coverage but I'm not sure taking LVE would make a ton of sense. 

[Broncofan]

22 minutes ago, Counselor said:

MHR passing along the rumor that if Denver trades down they want LVE.

LVE has one year of production and injury issues. Not a huge fan of that move at 12. Maybe 22. But even then that’s earlier than I have him ranked. 

 

1 minute ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

I have a hard time seeing how drafting him makes sense. We re-signed Todd Davis, Brandon Marshall is entrenched as a starter and we traded for S'ua Cravens. Drafting an ILB in the first round would be hard to justify. I mean I get that Davis and Marshall are both liabilities in coverage but I'm not sure taking LVE would make a ton of sense. 

Keep in mind we can walk away from Marshall next year at a very reasonable dead money hit.   But we much as I love LVE (and I do) I agree it’s crazy to retain Davis and then go ILB even at 1.22 (and OMG reach at 1.12).      The bigger issue IMO was being forced to retain Davis. 

I said it at the time of the Davis signing that was an awful decision - and not addressing ILB last year at any point of the draft was a major mistake.  The only argument for Davis is we had no one else. That’s bad planning.   

ILB has good depth - I still think Jewell (or if someone reaches for him that leaves a Malik Jefferson or Darius Leonard) will be there at 3.99 / 4.106.    After the big 3 of Smith / Edmunds / LVE we have Evans, Jefferson, Leonard & Jewell all left.  And guys like Griffin.   Seems like playing the Big Board we could draft ILB Rd3-4.   But that requires Elway to not fall in love with just 1 guy and not over-reach for said guy. That’s iffy given his recent history lol.  

[AnAngryAmerican]

I'm really getting the feeling we're going to trade down. There's been a lot of smoke about that recently from the beat guys and some hints from Elway's presser the other day. 

I think unless Sam Darnold or Bradley Chubb make it to us, and I think both ultimately end up in Cleveland, we move down. 

[thebestever6]

6 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

I'm really getting the feeling we're going to trade down. There's been a lot of smoke about that recently from the beat guys and some hints from Elway's presser the other day. 

I think unless Sam Darnold or Bradley Chubb make it to us, and I think both ultimately end up in Cleveland, we move down. 

Where do we move down too is the bigger question

[thebestever6]

10 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

I'm really getting the feeling we're going to trade down. There's been a lot of smoke about that recently from the beat guys and some hints from Elway's presser the other day. 

I think unless Sam Darnold or Bradley Chubb make it to us, and I think both ultimately end up in Cleveland, we move down. 

Like others are speculating I think this is smoke so they don't trade ahead of us.

[BroncoBruin]

Not sure I'm buying aloof, quiet beach kid Sam Darnold as having more love for the game and leadership qualities than Rosen. He does have more physical upside for sure. I would be thrilled with either. 

[elliot878]

On 4/21/2018 at 8:41 AM, thebestever6 said:

Heard from la confora if we trade back the boise state linebacker is a target. Any thoughts on him?

I had the Broncos taking him in my last mock.  He’s a freak athlete with great instincts, I think he’s going to be a real nice player.  I’m not sure about his injury record, if there’s any, that would be my only concern.

[thebestever6]

6 minutes ago, elliot878 said:

I had the Broncos taking him in my last mock.  He’s a freak athlete with great instincts, I think he’s going to be a real nice player.  I’m not sure about his injury record, if there’s any, that would be my only concern.

Yea injury question sounds like my only concern as well. I can see this being a front 7/ trench draft I'm very excited about that.