Trading Earl Thomas

[showtime]

There are a few Seahawks fans here who have purposed the Seahawks trade Earl Thomas.  I have been reading around the internet and this issue has cropped up on other sites as well.  I thought this would be a great time to discuss this and maybe as the off-season goes on we might actually really see this happen, who knows.

My stance on this matter is that the Seahawks should not trade Earl Thomas.  The Seahawks secondary was decimated by injury and I thought that Thomas played really well, all things considered.  He is such a massive reason the defense can function the way it does and without him I think the defense would be in a lot of trouble.  With all of that said, there are some valid reasons to trade Thomas.  Some of those reasons are - "Trade him now while he still holds a lot of value" and "If we don't trade him now, can we keep him?"

Addressing the first point, what is a fair trade for Earl Thomas?  He is currently 28 years of age.  Is there a team out there that would consider trading a first rounder for Thomas?  If so, is that fair value?  I have absolutely no clue what a 'fair' trade would be.  Thomas is obviously an all-pro caliber player and I have seen potential trades ranging from a 1st round pick to a 3rd round pick.  I'm personally not even tempted.  I just think it would be a really bad idea to trade Thomas.

Thomas is scheduled to become a free agent after the 2018-19 season.  Now the question becomes, what happens next?  Just as a reference, the Kansas City Chiefs signed Eric Berry to a 6 year, 78 million dollar extension when he was 28 years old.  Would Seahawks fans be willing to sign Thomas to a deal similar to that?  I almost think they have to.  I believe Eric Berry becomes a free agent when he is 34 years of age, which seems like an ideal situation I would like to see for the Seahawks and Earl Thomas.

[Hawkin]

One thing that pissed me off this year is that when he faced some adversity he melted down and threw that hissy fit in Dallas. After that I guestion his ability to lead this defense and if things continue to go wrong will he be a detriment to our younger players? I do think we try and resign him, for one to bring his cap number down, and two to keep him here. I just don't think he brings the veteran leadership I once thought he did. I guess if someone offers an amazing deal then sure why not.

[One Punch Man]

My issue is that the core members of our group have begun to age and decline in play, in demeanor. Not to say that they’re not all still extremely talented. Obviously when enough, we’ve the potential to be one of the top 10 defenses in the league. But how much longer will we be able to say that? A year or two before injuries and age REALLY take their toll on Bennett, ET, Kam, Sherm?

All while we’ve got a legitimate franchise QB wasting away behind a pathetic offensive line. If the rumors are true about ET holding out, we have to ship him. Too long have we been relying on budget players in the trenches and investing in players that yes, have been amazing for us.. but now is the time to sell before it gets worse, for them as individuals and for the rest of the team that suffers from a lack of talent and cap-space to sign talent.

I firmly believe that if we build our lines, both sides, whoever we bring into replace the pieces we lose will be adequate enough to keep us in top defense contention, while being able to sure up holes on our offense.

[showtime]

On 1/25/2018 at 3:25 PM, Hawkin said:

One thing that pissed me off this year is that when he faced some adversity he melted down and threw that hissy fit in Dallas. After that I guestion his ability to lead this defense and if things continue to go wrong will he be a detriment to our younger players? I do think we try and resign him, for one to bring his cap number down, and two to keep him here. I just don't think he brings the veteran leadership I once thought he did. I guess if someone offers an amazing deal then sure why not.

I'm not reading much into it.  The season was very frustrating on a lot of fronts.  Key guys were injured, the offense (outside of Russell Wilson) was bad and they missed the postseason... the games down the stretch were awful too, especially the Rams and Jaguars games.

[showtime]

On 1/30/2018 at 9:51 AM, One Punch Man said:

My issue is that the core members of our group have begun to age and decline in play, in demeanor. Not to say that they’re not all still extremely talented. Obviously when enough, we’ve the potential to be one of the top 10 defenses in the league. But how much longer will we be able to say that? A year or two before injuries and age REALLY take their toll on Bennett, ET, Kam, Sherm?

All while we’ve got a legitimate franchise QB wasting away behind a pathetic offensive line. If the rumors are true about ET holding out, we have to ship him. Too long have we been relying on budget players in the trenches and investing in players that yes, have been amazing for us.. but now is the time to sell before it gets worse, for them as individuals and for the rest of the team that suffers from a lack of talent and cap-space to sign talent.

I firmly believe that if we build our lines, both sides, whoever we bring into replace the pieces we lose will be adequate enough to keep us in top defense contention, while being able to sure up holes on our offense.

People say that, but did Richard Sherman really decline in play?  He was still terrific last year from what I saw.  Obviously this injury could really change things, but I thought he still played at a high level.  I thought Earl Thomas was also very good as well.  You do make a valid point about their ages, they're getting up there, but it's not like those guys are 34 or something.  They're still in their late 20's. (Sherman and Chancellor are both 29 now, will be 30 at the start of the season).

I mean, you make a good overall point about getting rid of players before it's too late - the Patriots have pretty much always done that with everyone.  In order to do that, you have to be confident with your ability to replace a pro bowl/all-pro caliber player.  

[One Punch Man]

3 hours ago, showtime said:

People say that, but did Richard Sherman really decline in play?  He was still terrific last year from what I saw.  Obviously this injury could really change things, but I thought he still played at a high level.  I thought Earl Thomas was also very good as well.  You do make a valid point about their ages, they're getting up there, but it's not like those guys are 34 or something.  They're still in their late 20's. (Sherman and Chancellor are both 29 now, will be 30 at the start of the season).

I mean, you make a good overall point about getting rid of players before it's too late - the Patriots have pretty much always done that with everyone.  In order to do that, you have to be confident with your ability to replace a pro bowl/all-pro caliber player.  

He did play well. Honestly though, if our LoB came back, with their age and injuries and their already expressed personal dissatisfaction/struggle with their place in the organization? I can’t expect them to come back and give us a top 5 Defense.

They’d come back and be 85% of what we’re used to. And next year it’d be 75%, or worse. Or we experience one injury and the percentage gets even worse. It’s like a band-aid we know we have to rip-off.

I always go with the youth though. We invested in our youngest, most important pieces (Wagner, Wilson). With guys like Clark, Griffin, Reed and Naz and McDowell and McDougald on D.. Baldwin, Lockett, Britt, Carson on O.. I firmly believe all we’d need are adequate replacements at FS, CB, DE. Adequate players on the line to protect our game-breaking QB. We ride Wilson to the playoffs and entrust Wagner and our D-line to give us a top-12 D.

That’s all we’d need. Ex: New England Patriots. 

[showtime]

The main question to ask ourselves is do you believe the Seahawks can contend for a playoff spot/Super Bowl birth over the next two seasons?  Before this past season started, the Seahawks were one of the top favorites to come out of the NFC.  Obviously those expectations will be different heading into next season, but I still think the team can make the post-season.  If you believe they can make the post-season, do you believe they can do that without Sherman and Thomas?  Because I think that makes the defense regress a decent amount, which would hurt the Seahawks chances.

Honestly, one off-season can do wonders.  Look at the Rams.  Before making the playoffs this season, they had one of the worst offensive lines last year.  They continued to develop some guys they drafted and made a key FA signing and bam... their offensive line was pretty good.

The Seahawks made a big trade to get Duane Brown (obviously not the player Andrew Whitworth is), but he's still a good player.  Draft a guard or another offensive lineman in the first 2-3 rounds and I believe the offensive line can improve.

[One Punch Man]

 

20 minutes ago, showtime said:

The main question to ask ourselves is do you believe the Seahawks can contend for a playoff spot/Super Bowl birth over the next two seasons?  Before this past season started, the Seahawks were one of the top favorites to come out of the NFC.  Obviously those expectations will be different heading into next season, but I still think the team can make the post-season.  If you believe they can make the post-season, do you believe they can do that without Sherman and Thomas?  Because I think that makes the defense regress a decent amount, which would hurt the Seahawks chances.

Honestly, one off-season can do wonders.  Look at the Rams.  Before making the playoffs this season, they had one of the worst offensive lines last year.  They continued to develop some guys they drafted and made a key FA signing and bam... their offensive line was pretty good.

The Seahawks made a big trade to get Duane Brown (obviously not the player Andrew Whitworth is), but he's still a good player.  Draft a guard or another offensive lineman in the first 2-3 rounds and I believe the offensive line can improve.

Those are good points. With the ever-improving Rams and 49ers, I’m not so certain. I think we’re a playoff team, a SB contender. But a few improvements to the teams across the way and they’re right there with us, and both are better equipped for prolonged success, which pisses me off. 

I wholeheartedly believe we can make the playoffs without ET and Sherman. I think we’re a SB contender with an adequate/above-average offensive line and decent pieces in the secondary. 

Recipe for the teams that win Super Bowls: good HC, decent offensive line, franchise QB, good pass rush and run defense, mainly selfless, scheme-focused attitude on defensive with a playmaker or two at LB/DB.

Hell Tom and Bill have been near enough. Their defense has fluxed in terms of effectiveness here and then but they’re annual SB contenders cause they take care of their franchise QB.

We’ve got 2/5 pieces for our O-Line. All we’d have to do is continue developing our young DL, sign and/or draft OL and DB. Maybe add a big body at WR and/or TE. Then we’re set.

[Hawkin]

Chanclor could be released soon, guess we can save money if we release him before the 9th. I really think Earl and Sherman stay though. I guessing that Kam, vril, Lane and thorpe get released. 

[showtime]

23 hours ago, One Punch Man said:

 

Those are good points. With the ever-improving Rams and 49ers, I’m not so certain. I think we’re a playoff team, a SB contender. But a few improvements to the teams across the way and they’re right there with us, and both are better equipped for prolonged success, which pisses me off. 

I wholeheartedly believe we can make the playoffs without ET and Sherman. I think we’re a SB contender with an adequate/above-average offensive line and decent pieces in the secondary. 

Recipe for the teams that win Super Bowls: good HC, decent offensive line, franchise QB, good pass rush and run defense, mainly selfless, scheme-focused attitude on defensive with a playmaker or two at LB/DB.

Hell Tom and Bill have been near enough. Their defense has fluxed in terms of effectiveness here and then but they’re annual SB contenders cause they take care of their franchise QB.

We’ve got 2/5 pieces for our O-Line. All we’d have to do is continue developing our young DL, sign and/or draft OL and DB. Maybe add a big body at WR and/or TE. Then we’re set.

It might be better long term to trade Sherman and Thomas right now, but I think that would disrupt the Seahawks making the postseason.  The thing about Thomas is, he has such a huge impact on games even if he records zero interceptions or passes defended.  Teams just play the Seahawks differently when Thomas is not patrolling center field.

I'm less sure about Sherman.  His injury was such a serious one, but I think he has a chance to come back from it.  His play style was never predicated on his athletic ability.  He's a big physical CB with great technique and a high IQ.

[One Punch Man]

1 hour ago, showtime said:

It might be better long term to trade Sherman and Thomas right now, but I think that would disrupt the Seahawks making the postseason.  The thing about Thomas is, he has such a huge impact on games even if he records zero interceptions or passes defended.  Teams just play the Seahawks differently when Thomas is not patrolling center field.

I'm less sure about Sherman.  His injury was such a serious one, but I think he has a chance to come back from it.  His play style was never predicated on his athletic ability.  He's a big physical CB with great technique and a high IQ.

Agree to disagree then. We almost made the playoffs without a lot of our pieces out this year. Our depth was not up to snuff, but with an entire offseason of preparation and replacement signings/drafting, long as we got Wilson, a decent line on both sides, and Wagner, we’ll be a playoff contender.

I won’t be opposed to one last hurrah for the old vets, and the probability of them all coming back is pretty high. I just don’t think it’s a situation worth prolonging. Too old, too disgruntled amongst themselves. The injuries have added up and even if we enter next season full health, we’re set up for a steep decline. I don’t think our guys come back the same. Sure we’ll be good enough to make some noise in the playoffs. But we’re not consistently beating the Eagles and Vikings and Saints of the world, all of which have great talent and youth. I don’t think we’re SB contenders until we address 3/5 spots on our O-Line, our lack of depth, youth and overall talent at WR/TE/LB/DB outside of a few guys like Wagner, Baldwin, Lockett, Griffin. To do that, we need a fair mix of proven veteran talent and draft picks. And we need money; money is something that we don’t have right now cause it’s mostly tied to 4 guys.

[zappa13004]

On 02/02/2018 at 11:04 PM, showtime said:

It might be better long term to trade Sherman

He is still very good and such a valuable piece to me. But he is under contract for one more year, means he could go in 2019 for free. A team with no 2nd and no 3rd round pick could consider trade offers dont you think ?

[showtime]

5 hours ago, zappa13004 said:

He is still very good and such a valuable piece to me. But he is under contract for one more year, means he could go in 2019 for free. A team with no 2nd and no 3rd round pick could consider trade offers dont you think ?

I agree that he is very good and a really valuable piece, but I was mostly talking about his injury.

[zappa13004]

1 hour ago, showtime said:

I agree that he is very good and a really valuable piece, but I was mostly talking about his injury.

Yes and me im talking about using him to recover a high pick in that draft. He is 29, only 1 year left, will you loose him for nothing in 2019 ?

[showtime]

1 minute ago, zappa13004 said:

Yes and me im talking about using him to recover a high pick in that draft. He is 29, only 1 year left, will you loose him for nothing in 2019 ?

I think that's a legit point.  I'm not sure what Sherman is worth in terms of a trade, I'd have to think he's at an all-time low in terms of value.  His serious injury + the amount of money he will command is a massive turn off for most teams.  It's probably not even worth trading him.