kris_kapsner Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 I know Dixon had pretty much the worst off season he could have last year. But, before that he looked like a future stud to me. What are your thoughts about him heading into this season? Will he carve out some playing time or has that ship sailed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 I would hope so. I hope that Collins/Dixon are the workhorse backs this year with Buck Allen being the 3rd down/spell back. Woodhead can get cut, West can leave, and that's all we need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danand Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Imo he has the potential. He has just the equal chance to be out of the league in 6 months. He hasn't been able to stay healthy and combined with suspensions, he is not a safe bet to make the roster next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmad Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 I'd rather we draft a new RB since Dixon has proven to be unreliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 This is one of the more talented running back classes. So to stick with a bunch of mediocre backs when there is some serious talent available, would be a shame. Dixon should only be relied upon as a last resort... in the event that the draft board falls in a way that doesn’t produce us a back in the top 3 rounds. Same statement goes for Collins tbqh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavensDefense3 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Not sure how you can call Collins or Dixon mediocre, they've both looked great when they've been on the field. Especially Collins, the guy was #11 in rushing yards despite not starting for a good chunk of the season. Can't expect them all to be Zeke Elliott or Leveon Bell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 9 hours ago, RavensDefense3 said: Not sure how you can call Collins or Dixon mediocre, they've both looked great when they've been on the field. Especially Collins, the guy was #11 in rushing yards despite not starting for a good chunk of the season. Can't expect them all to be Zeke Elliott or Leveon Bell. I think you’re overestimating what Collins was able to provide behind a very good run blocking offensive line vs what his talent as a runner actually has the ability to do. He’s good enough to get it done now, when he has everything working for him. But that’s what mediocre players are able to do. Joe Flacco is mediocre. Surround him with talent and he will produce. Mediocre players are a necessity for every team to rely on. You want proof of my point? Go look up Steve Slaton. He rushed for nearly 1282 rushing yards on 268 carries, for a 4.8 rush per carry average. And had 3 fumbles that year. The next year he had 7 fumbles and was never heard of again. Steve Slaton was a mediocre back that took advantage of a great situation and then was a letdown and needed to be replaced. And just like Collins, he was also a top college back. The difference is looking at the games and the tape, you can see their running vision in comparison to greats. You can see their inability to finish runs for extra yardage. You can see their poor ability to carry the football with a protective seal. And you can see past the production, to what the player truly is. Now if our QB was Drew Brees or Tom Brady, we could get by with a mediocre back, but he’s not. So we need to supply him with a difference maker. Because it’s much more difficult to find a true difference maker at QB than a true difference maker at running back. Which is why I will always support Joe Flacco unless an elite option becomes available. But it’s also the reason why we can’t settle for a guy like Alex Collins when the position can be upgraded with players that are clearly on another level of ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kris_kapsner Posted January 26, 2018 Author Share Posted January 26, 2018 9 hours ago, RavensDefense3 said: Not sure how you can call Collins or Dixon mediocre, they've both looked great when they've been on the field. Especially Collins, the guy was #11 in rushing yards despite not starting for a good chunk of the season. Can't expect them all to be Zeke Elliott or Leveon Bell. 4 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said: I think you’re overestimating what Collins was able to provide behind a very good run blocking offensive line vs what his talent as a runner actually has the ability to do. He’s good enough to get it done now, when he has everything working for him. But that’s what mediocre players are able to do. Joe Flacco is mediocre. Surround him with talent and he will produce. Mediocre players are a necessity for every team to rely on. You want proof of my point? Go look up Steve Slaton. He rushed for nearly 1282 rushing yards on 268 carries, for a 4.8 rush per carry average. And had 3 fumbles that year. The next year he had 7 fumbles and was never heard of again. Steve Slaton was a mediocre back that took advantage of a great situation and then was a letdown and needed to be replaced. And just like Collins, he was also a top college back. The difference is looking at the games and the tape, you can see their running vision in comparison to greats. You can see their inability to finish runs for extra yardage. You can see their poor ability to carry the football with a protective seal. And you can see past the production, to what the player truly is. Now if our QB was Drew Brees or Tom Brady, we could get by with a mediocre back, but he’s not. So we need to supply him with a difference maker. Because it’s much more difficult to find a true difference maker at QB than a true difference maker at running back. Which is why I will always support Joe Flacco unless an elite option becomes available. But it’s also the reason why we can’t settle for a guy like Alex Collins when the position can be upgraded with players that are clearly on another level of ability. . Good points I don't disagree that a difference maker should be taken when possible. Difference makers come at different positions too. Collins looked very good last year. And Dixon looked great the year before, then got hurt and suspended. I feel like Dixon has enough talent to be a stud potentially...if he can clean up his act and stay healthy. I'm not sure that the Ravens need to draft another RB early. I'm all for adding depth to a position that tends to suffer injuries though. And, if a RB with a day 2 grade on the Ravens board falls to round 4, then by all means, jump in and grab him. That's entirely possible. But, I feel like those two are talented enough to give them a try to become difference makers in the run game. The Ravens could use difference makers at other positions more in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 They can indeed use difference makers more at WR, ILB, RT, and TE more than at RB. However I rank the need at RB just as, if not more prominent than the need at safety. Only because troubled players generally don’t pan out... especially when they’re trouble early. The nfl is a jump up in competition. Players like Dixon, between suspensions and injuries never get a chance to catch up to the talent jump.. and thus never reach collegiate potential. But even then, scouting Dixon you definitely liked the guy, but this class of backs is a level beyond what I’ve consistently seen in the past from back classes. It’s pretty special. And we’d be fools to not get one of my 4 star rated backs because we want to ride with a one hit wonder back with a fumbling problem. Even improving his form, he was still weak at it. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mancunian Raven Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 If he can stay healthy and clean, maybe. But with Dixon, he's shown little ability to do either. He'll be fighting for his roster spot, this summer, along with any young RBs the team brings in. And I'm more than up for taking a RB in the top rounds of the draft, if the picks fall nicely. Derrius Guice seems like he fits into that window between the Ravens first round pick and second round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywabbit Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 4 hours ago, diamondbull424 said: I think you’re overestimating what Collins was able to provide behind a very good run blocking offensive line vs what his talent as a runner actually has the ability to do. He’s good enough to get it done now, when he has everything working for him. But that’s what mediocre players are able to do. Joe Flacco is mediocre. Surround him with talent and he will produce. Mediocre players are a necessity for every team to rely on. You want proof of my point? Go look up Steve Slaton. He rushed for nearly 1282 rushing yards on 268 carries, for a 4.8 rush per carry average. And had 3 fumbles that year. The next year he had 7 fumbles and was never heard of again. Steve Slaton was a mediocre back that took advantage of a great situation and then was a letdown and needed to be replaced. And just like Collins, he was also a top college back. The difference is looking at the games and the tape, you can see their running vision in comparison to greats. You can see their inability to finish runs for extra yardage. You can see their poor ability to carry the football with a protective seal. And you can see past the production, to what the player truly is. Now if our QB was Drew Brees or Tom Brady, we could get by with a mediocre back, but he’s not. So we need to supply him with a difference maker. Because it’s much more difficult to find a true difference maker at QB than a true difference maker at running back. Which is why I will always support Joe Flacco unless an elite option becomes available. But it’s also the reason why we can’t settle for a guy like Alex Collins when the position can be upgraded with players that are clearly on another level of ability. I've seen very different things with BOTH Collins and Dixon on game tape. Especially the bold. Terrance West is a "take exactly what the line blocks for" runner, not the other two IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 When talking about finishing runs. Look at Nick Chubb and then look back at Dixon or Collins. Chubb finishes a run. He makes the defender pay for tackling him. In terms of open field ability and getting more than what the line provides, Collins is explosive, he’s quick, and shift. He can make a person miss in space. Those are his positives. But that doesn’t take away from the fact that with his athleticism there are a multitude of cutback lanes that he has an opportunity to attack if only he saw them. I knew Ray Rice would be a good back when I saw his tape because of his vision. Collins has average vision. And finishes off runs at an average level. If you can sit here and tell me that Alex Collins and Kenneth Dixon’s collegiate game tape are on the same level as a Derrius Guice or Sony Michel then we should probably just agree to disagree here. Because that’s my point. When backs like that should be available in the second round, why be satisfied with mediocrity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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