swede700 Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 9 minutes ago, vikingsrule said: So there is potential for Barr to net us a third round comp pick if he can get a team to sign him as a 3-4 OLB. Id be okay with that if the plan is to let him walk due to restrained resources. The problem I personally have with letting him walk is there is absolutely no one to replace him. There is zero depth at the position and a draft pick ain't just come walking in and provide the same performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 24 minutes ago, disaacs said: The problem I personally have with letting him walk is there is absolutely no one to replace him. There is zero depth at the position and a draft pick ain't just come walking in and provide the same performance. Not the same performance, but a draft pick can come in an provide good enough performance. Zimmer has shown an ability to get LBers up to speed quickly within his scheme. Losing one of the other players would be a lot more concerning to me if the team needed to replace them with a rookie. As far as Barr not getting a deal done, it might not be because the Vikings think he is less important to the team but instead because Barr and the team are not seeing eye to eye on what his value is. Barr may think that his value is that of a premium pass rushing LB while the team values him for what he is. Until they agree on things like that working on a deal is kind of pointless no matter how much time Barr's agent and the Vikings have available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krauser Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 51 minutes ago, disaacs said: The problem I personally have with letting him walk is there is absolutely no one to replace him. There is zero depth at the position and a draft pick ain't just come walking in and provide the same performance. I guess so. It's not like there's never going to be a challenge in maintaining a roster with 7 or more blue chip players on defense. If Barr wants to make edge rusher money, and someone is willing to offer him that, the Vikings should let him go, don't you think? Would you want to keep him for the kind of money Hunter is getting? They could use a 2nd round pick and get a very good, athletic OLB prospect. From last year's draft, Lorenzo Carter went in the early 3rd. I made a list of similar players at one point and most of them were drafted either late in the 1st (Ogletree) or on day two (Jamie Collins). The LBs drafted under Zimmer for starting roles (Barr, Kendricks, Gedeon) have all played well as rookies, so it's reasonable to think the drop-off from Barr to his replacement wouldn't be too severe. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CriminalMind Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 (edited) We have more leverage with Diggs right now compared to Barr. So you roll with the leverage. If Barr wasn't giving us a value signing within the early part of negotiations, we need to wait to ink Diggs first to see what we theoretically might have remaining for Barr, then prioritization between Barr or waiting to see how Richardson fits etc. Edited July 10, 2018 by CriminalMind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TENINCH Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Wouldn't be upset if we resigned Wayne's over Barr. Especially if Barr starts to price himself out of the Vikings market. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 3 hours ago, vikingsrule said: Wonder how Barr feels seeing potentially 3 players getting new deals first. Whats the LB franchise tag looking like next year. Could be a plausible option. Considering he’s being paid the most of any of them this year, and likely more than his long term AAV should be, I would hope he’s perfectly content with his current situation. As for the franchise tag, it’s roughly going to be $15M. Too steep of a price for a linebacker with no pass rush prowess. I really like Barr, but of all of the players looking to get long term contracts, including Waynes and Richardson, Barr’s skillset/what he brings to the table is the easiest to replace. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CriminalMind Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 I wouldn't put Waynes ahead of Barr yet. But I'd put Richardson ahead of Barr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freakout Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 I have always believed we were going to only keep one of Barr / Kendricks. I was surprised when Kendricks got his extension - mostly the timing of it. I just have a gut feeling they approached Barr's agent with that same contract and it didn't go anywhere. The team turned around and gave the same deal to Kendricks who jumped at the deal. I just don't see any other reason for Barr to still be unsigned unless he has priced himself out of the picture. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 16 hours ago, Krauser said: I guess so. It's not like there's never going to be a challenge in maintaining a roster with 7 or more blue chip players on defense. If Barr wants to make edge rusher money, and someone is willing to offer him that, the Vikings should let him go, don't you think? Would you want to keep him for the kind of money Hunter is getting? They could use a 2nd round pick and get a very good, athletic OLB prospect. From last year's draft, Lorenzo Carter went in the early 3rd. I made a list of similar players at one point and most of them were drafted either late in the 1st (Ogletree) or on day two (Jamie Collins). The LBs drafted under Zimmer for starting roles (Barr, Kendricks, Gedeon) have all played well as rookies, so it's reasonable to think the drop-off from Barr to his replacement wouldn't be too severe. If someone does want to sign him to edge rusher money, sure. But, like some others have found (I believe Everson Griffen was one back in 2013), sometimes it may take them going to the actual free agency market to find out that they aren't as valuable to other teams as they may think they are. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Barr enter the free agent market for a couple of days and then come back to the Vikings for a reasonable extension. And while yes, the rookies have played reasonably well, there's no replacing the rapport that Kendricks and Barr have together, considering they know exactly where each other are and where they are going. That would take time. I think the drop-off would be more significant than some may think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krauser Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Griffen signed in 2014 for more than most anyone expected given his stats and usage up to that point. Almost certainly more money than if he’d extended with the Vikings a year earlier. The Broncos reportedly made a strong offer for him, which the Vikings had to match. The contract was considered an overpayment by many fans and also several analysts, was named by Forbes IIRC as one of the worst contracts in the league. I don’t think Barr is unrealistic enough to demand edge rusher money when he hasn’t shown he can succeed in that role. I think his contract demands are probably in the neighborhood of Telvin Smith ($11M AAV, an extension signed midseason in 2017, the last year of his rookie deal) and Jamie Collins ($12.5M AAV, an extension signed in 2017, just after the last year of his rookie deal but before the tampering period). Barr’s role and reputation are pretty similar to Collins’, and while he’d be signing earlier in the process (which should keep the price down a little, added security), his 2018 salary is already locked in above $12M, so he isn’t going to be as motivated to sign earlier just to get the bonus money, unlike Hunter and Diggs who’ve never had a huge NFL payday. i think there is a scenario where Barr could make considerably more than the $12M or so I think he’s being offered to stay in Minnesota, but that involves showing he can produce as an edge rusher this year, and waiting for someone to throw a big offer at him as a UFA. The Vikings would be crazy to pay him edge rusher money (say $14M) right now, IMO. I don’t think Barr would have a problem getting at least that same $12M or so next year if he does wait until the tampering period, as long as he stays healthy in the meantime. So there’s only a little risk (mostly to do with long term injury) for him to wait until March, see what his market is like, and then decide whether to stay or go. If he did stay, he’d sign with the Vikings a day or so before the UFA period opens. I like Barr a lot and don’t want to see him go. I think he adds a lot to the defense (mainly in opening up schematic flexibility and being a big and mobile part of the underneath zone coverage schemes) that doesn’t always show up on the stat sheet, but does have an effect on the scoreboard. I’ll be very happy if he extends with the Vikings for top of the market but not ridiculous numbers for a 4-3 OLB. Having said that, off LOS LBs typically aren’t too hard to come by in the draft, so I think the Vikings would have an easier time finding a prospect outside the top 20 picks to replace Barr than Richardson or Waynes or Diggs. If Barr does move on, I expect the defense will be still be in good shape overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 19 hours ago, disaacs said: The problem I personally have with letting him walk is there is absolutely no one to replace him. There is zero depth at the position and a draft pick ain't just come walking in and provide the same performance. we may have to face the reality that we might see a downgrade at the OLB position or may have to start a rookie. That's unavoidable as the Vikes determine who to let walk due to financial reasons. The position may have to evolve given Barr's unique skill set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 15 hours ago, CriminalMind said: I wouldn't put Waynes ahead of Barr yet. But I'd put Richardson ahead of Barr Without Richardson playing a down in a Vikings uniform? Look, I like getting Richardson on the team as much as anyone else...however, I'm not willing to say the Vikings should offer him a contract beyond this year until he shows he can live up to or surpass the present contract. I think Barr's performance, in my opinion, warrants a long term contract with a lot more money. I would like that contract to be with the Vikings...the questions is, can the front office make it happen for him, for Diggs and for Waynes? I suspect one or two of them will not be Vikings after 2018. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBrocks Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, Virginia Viking said: Without Richardson playing a down in a Vikings uniform? Look, I like getting Richardson on the team as much as anyone else...however, I'm not willing to say the Vikings should offer him a contract beyond this year until he shows he can live up to or surpass the present contract. I think Barr's performance, in my opinion, warrants a long term contract with a lot more money. I would like that contract to be with the Vikings...the questions is, can the front office make it happen for him, for Diggs and for Waynes? I suspect one or two of them will not be Vikings after 2018. what about Richardson's play indicates that he isn't worth a long term deal? Barr has quasi-acknowledged that he coasted for a year. A big money deal would worry me more for Barr than Richardson to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, JDBrocks said: what about Richardson's play indicates that he isn't worth a long term deal? 1 Are you returning from the future? The guy hasn't played in a Vikings' uniform yet...and he wasn't exactly stellar the last time he played in a 4-3. He's been a virtual non-factor in the last 2 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBrocks Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 So being traded during the season to a team that plays an unfamiliar scheme, and being asked to play a new position, and still being one of the more impactful pass rushers from the interior is a non-factor? He generated pressure on 7.5% of pass plays, had 28 hurries and 7 QB hits. Sacks are not the end all for defensive lineman. He's been consistently rated as one of the top 30 DL in the NFL for his entire career according to PFF. He's also never played next to the talent level that he's going to get in MN. I'm very much on the Barr's skill-set is more replaceable than Richardson's train. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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