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Yeah, Richardson was good last year with the Seahawks -- their best DL against the run and their only good DT as a pass rusher. 

No guarantee, but I'm optimistic he'll be as good as Floyd was when he was still healthy (2014-15), maybe better than that. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Virginia Viking said:

Without Richardson playing a down in a Vikings uniform?  Look, I like getting Richardson on the team as much as anyone else...however, I'm not willing to say the Vikings should offer him a contract beyond this year until he shows he can live up to or surpass the present contract.  I think Barr's performance, in my opinion, warrants a long term contract with a lot more money.  I would like that contract to be with the Vikings...the questions is, can the front office make it happen for him, for Diggs and for Waynes?  I suspect one or two of them will not be Vikings after 2018.

If Barr is not giving us a value deal right now ... I delay negotiations with Barr till late (time on our side).

By mid-season if we like how Richardson is doing, I'd prioritize him more over Barr - partly due to positional impact, as long as Richardson contract demands are reasonable.

Right now Waynes is at the bottom of my list for retaining, since we have a potential option (Hughes).

Edited by CriminalMind

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2 hours ago, JDBrocks said:

what about Richardson's play indicates that he isn't worth a long term deal?

The part I don't like about his play enough to this point in his career to be giving him a long-term contract is the fact that not a snap of his play has been with the Vikings in Zimmer's system. If the team already decided they would extend Richardson before Barr they could have just given him a longer deal when initially signing him.

I would be deferring the extensions for Barr, Richardson, and Waynes until more games have been played to help sort things out. How will Richardson look in Zimmer's system? Has Waynes continued to improve? How does Hughes look on the field? Can Barr demonstrate year-to-year consistency?  These are but a few of the many questions I would want to have more data on before making a commitment to any of them that would exclude another of them.

Diggs, on the other hand, I would be ready to lock him up right now if he would agree to reasonable terms.

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2 hours ago, JDBrocks said:

what about Richardson's play indicates that he isn't worth a long term deal? Barr has quasi-acknowledged that he coasted for a year. A big money deal would worry me more for Barr than Richardson to be honest.

I just want to see what he does wearing purple, playing under Zimmer's scheme. 

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My biggest reservation with giving Barr a long term, top tier LB contract is the fact that he’s not a playmaker. Sure, linebackers with his combination of size and speed are rare, but they haven’t exactly led to much. He’s only got 1 career interception, only 1 forced fumble in the past two seasons, and only 1 fumble recovery in the past three seasons. 

Compare that to other top paid 43 OLBs, and Barr’s numbers simply aren’t there. 

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Cearbhall said:

If the team already decided they would extend Richardson before Barr they could have just given him a longer deal when initially signing him.

Richardson probably didn't want to sign long-term at this point, coming off 2 years with the Jets where he was miscast as a 3-4 DE or OLB, then a year in Seattle where he played well but didn't rack up sacks. 

If he plays well this year, he might get close to Short/Dareus money ($15-16M AAV) as a UFA next year, instead of his current $8M. He'll have every advantage given the scheme and the surrounding talent, so this is his big chance. 

Similar situation happened with Alshon Jeffrey last year. He was coming off a couple of down years in 2015-16, where he'd missed time due to injuries and a suspension, and his production had been limited playing in a terrible offense with the Bears. Teams would've hesitated to give him a long term deal at a premium price, and he wanted to boost his market. So he signed for one year $9.5M with the Eagles, and by December had shown enough that he was rewarded with a $52M/4 extension. 

The Vikings with Richardson should obviously wait to see what he does this year, but if he's playing well and is willing to extend, giving him a $12M extension would be very tempting. He only turns 28 this year (same age as Linval Joseph was in 2016), so he might get a 3-4 year extension running through to 2022 or so. 

If the Vikings know that they might want to give Richardson that deal, and maybe that they'd rather keep him and replace Barr than the opposite, if both play well this year, they should be reluctant to box themselves in right now, leave the question open until later this year or next offseason. 

Edited by Krauser

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1 hour ago, Krauser said:

Yeah, Richardson was good last year with the Seahawks -- their best DL against the run and their only good DT as a pass rusher. 

No guarantee, but I'm optimistic he'll be as good as Floyd was when he was still healthy (2014-15), maybe better than that. 

I'm just not a fan of extending guys who haven't even taken a snap wearing your team's uniform regardless of how he performed elsewhere...just think of a situation where they had extended Mike Wallace upon trading for him.  How would that have worked out?  

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2 minutes ago, disaacs said:

I'm just not a fan of extending guys who haven't even taken a snap wearing your team's uniform regardless of how he performed elsewhere...just think of a situation where they had extended Mike Wallace upon trading for him.  How would that have worked out?  

Sure, but literally no one is suggesting that.

The point is just that they might want to budget for the possibility of keeping Richardson -- if he plays well.

If Richardson has 7 sacks by the end of November and is 2nd in Pro Bowl voting for DTs behind Aaron Donald, it might be nice to be able to lock him up for 4 more years for cheaper than he'd cost on the open market in March. 

Since long-term extensions will be similarly expensive for Barr and (in the ideal scenario for team and player) Richardson, and it'll be hard to sign them both for that kind of money (right?), it's not crazy to want the team to wait to decide which offer to make.

It doesn't sound to me like the Vikings are waiting, there are reports that they've made Barr an offer and are negotiating. But I won't be unhappy if Barr starts the season without a long-term deal in place.

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I love Barr, but I do think that for both him and the team the best bet will be to let him play through the season and possibly test the market. This is assuming that the reason a deal isn't done now is because he isn't willing to take a friendly deal with the team (I don't want to call it a hometown discount, but it is what it is). If he plays through the season, that will fully set what his value should be: He could get more pass rush opportunities and do well meaning he could garner a bigger deal, or he could flounder bringing him closer to a regular 4-3OLB salary. He could get injured and then his value could definitely take a hit. He might just be looking for more money that we think he is worth, and could get that on the open market, or could find that what we were offering is a lot closer to what the rest of the league sees as his value. I do think he is a great player, and has a significant impact on the team, both with his play and chemistry, but by no means is he un-replaceable.

Richardson has to still show that he can be successful in this system and that he has the correct chemistry to mesh well with our defense. I think the chances of this happening are fairly high, and that he could at the very least achieve the production that Floyd had, with a higher ceiling. Based on the impact that the UT can have on this defense, I think he would be next in line to receive a new contract beyond Diggs.

Waynes is an interesting situation. He has really come along and shown a lot, but he still has some flaws and things to clean up. That being said, CB's under Zimmer seem to just get better and better every year they have in the system, so we could see an even better version of Waynes this year. If he does progress like that, it'll be really tough to not try and bring him back, but I think it'll solely rest on two major factors: How much he improves this year, and how Hughes, Hill, and Alexander all fare. If Alexander takes a jump, then I think that immediately makes Waynes much more expendable, regardless of how Waynes performs. If Hughes and Hill both show to be coming along well, then it almost makes it a lock to let Waynes walk. I think the possibility of 1-2 of Hughes, Hill, and Alexander showing starting capability is very possible (and will be one of my favorite position groups to watch this year), and that will make bringing Waynes back almost unnecessary.

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9 minutes ago, Krauser said:

Sure, but literally no one is suggesting that.

 

Maybe not in the current discussion (I haven't read every response thoroughly), but they certainly were suggesting it in the previous discussions we've had prior to the Hunter extension.  There were at least a few people indicating that they should extend Richardson during training camp.  

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Posted (edited)

It looks like Barr was offered a valued type contract with Vikings, and Barr camp said no at that time.

So the Vikings camp, placed those negotiations on hold for a later time when more is known about a) how well is Richardson playing (and potentially he might then become more of a priority) b) Did we (already) get Diggs to sign a value contract or fair market contract

Edited by CriminalMind

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29 minutes ago, disaacs said:

Maybe not in the current discussion (I haven't read every response thoroughly), but they certainly were suggesting it in the previous discussions we've had prior to the Hunter extension.  There were at least a few people indicating that they should extend Richardson during training camp.  

It wouldn't make sense to extend Richardson during camp since he just signed a one year deal this offseason. I think what was implied is if Richardson plays well through the half way point to start discussing a long term cotract.

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I was anticipating the team having to make a decision next year.

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47 minutes ago, disaacs said:

Maybe not in the current discussion (I haven't read every response thoroughly), but they certainly were suggesting it in the previous discussions we've had prior to the Hunter extension.  There were at least a few people indicating that they should extend Richardson during training camp.  

Fair enough, I guess I shouldn't promise that other people haven't made unreasonable arguments that I haven't read. 

Of course there's no way Richardson will get extended until late this season at the earliest. 

I think it's fair to talk about the possibility of extending him eventually, even though he hasn't yet played a down in purple, and to want to leave room for that in the long-term budget.

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16 hours ago, Krauser said:

Fair enough, I guess I shouldn't promise that other people haven't made unreasonable arguments that I haven't read. 

Of course there's no way Richardson will get extended until late this season at the earliest. 

I think it's fair to talk about the possibility of extending him eventually, even though he hasn't yet played a down in purple, and to want to leave room for that in the long-term budget.

Oh, I agree.  If he plays well, then it would likely be late in the season before extension would even be discussed, especially since, like Floyd, he could suffer some horrific injury (god forbid) and they'd be out money if the extension were done sooner.  I'm just not ready to prioritize RIchardson over Barr at this point, because I haven't seen him play in purple yet.  

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