vikingsrule Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 32 minutes ago, gopherwrestler said: Also one hasn’t been the best player available while we needed a lineman. If the player is there, and is the best player, he will be a Vikings. looking at his history he’s basicslly done this every year. You simply don't know who BPA is unless you're in the Vikings war room. The concept of BPA is completely subjective. Either the Vikes undervalue the position historically early in the draft (most likely) or there haven't been good prospects (not as unlikely). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopherwrestler Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 51 minutes ago, vikingsrule said: You simply don't know who BPA is unless you're in the Vikings war room. The concept of BPA is completely subjective. Either the Vikes undervalue the position historically early in the draft (most likely) or there haven't been good prospects (not as unlikely). I realize I’m not in there, but for how I have even felt the past 5 years in the first round value has been not with the lineman at our pick of value of who we have drafted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, gopherwrestler said: I realize I’m not in there, but for how I have even felt the past 5 years in the first round value has been not with the lineman at our pick of value of who we have drafted. Perhaps over analyzing value is why the team is stuck with as bad an OL as is the case now. Do OL get knocked with a perception of being less valued as other prospects? Just seems in recent years they are quick to grab flashy positions with prospects that fall (Treadwell, Cook and Hughes come to mind as very recent examples) over OL. I'm inclined to believe this will continue going forward. They just absolutely have to hit on those 3rd and 4th round OL this time around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticNorseman Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 1 hour ago, vikingsrule said: Perhaps over analyzing value is why the team is stuck with as bad an OL as is the case now. Do OL get knocked with a perception of being less valued as other prospects? Just seems in recent years they are quick to grab flashy positions with prospects that fall (Treadwell, Cook and Hughes come to mind as very recent examples) over OL. I'm inclined to believe this will continue going forward. They just absolutely have to hit on those 3rd and 4th round OL this time around. To me, the Vikes are stuck with a bad OL because they haven't had chemistry and leadership . . . talent of course, helps. Elflein's return helps, but getting a stable of horses that work together is the key. Between Easton's injury, Sparano's death, Elflein returning from injury late, and a new QB, last season was a recipe for disaster . . . and it was. When the Vikes drafted Kalil, I thought Finally, they drafted a need AND talent. Whoops, what a one year wonder that experiment was. The Vikes need a new Zimmerman, McDaniel, Hutchison to pair with Elflein and O'Neill (who I think will be really good if they don't screw up and move him to LT). They need a RG . . . They might need a LG, and they need a future LT. So, use #18 overall to get that perennial pro-bowl caliber RG! Use a 3rd or 4th Rd pick to get the developmental LT; I prefer someone who has the size and speed, but needs to add strength. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolmonite26 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 4 hours ago, vikingsrule said: You simply don't know who BPA is unless you're in the Vikings war room. The concept of BPA is completely subjective. Either the Vikes undervalue the position historically early in the draft (most likely) or there haven't been good prospects (not as unlikely). I'd recommend going back to some of the recent drafts and looking at some of the offensive linemen taken around those 1 and 2nd round picks....not great 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrplChilPill Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Dolmonite26 said: I'd recommend going back to some of the recent drafts and looking at some of the offensive linemen taken around those 1 and 2nd round picks....not great Plenty of starters were taken after the Vikings picks. They need to pick better. I mean, if you knew a guy would be a starter, he's worth a second round pick. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolmonite26 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 28 minutes ago, PrplChilPill said: Plenty of starters were taken after the Vikings picks. They need to pick better. I mean, if you knew a guy would be a starter, he's worth a second round pick. Can you name them? Some of the best starters taken after the Vikings picks have been Elflin and O'niel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrplChilPill Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Dolmonite26 said: Can you name them? Some of the best starters taken after the Vikings picks have been Elflin and O'niel I'm not going to bother looking at five years of drafts to show that any starting OL have been taken after round one or two during that time. Because we all know some were. Or, don't believe me. I don't actually care if you do. Edited March 17, 2019 by PrplChilPill 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopherwrestler Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopherwrestler Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 39 minutes ago, PrplChilPill said: I'm not going to bother looking at five years of drafts to show that any starting OL have been taken after round one or two during that time. Because we all know some were. Or, don't believe me. I don't actually care if you do. Oh there is no doubt, there is even plenty of UDFA offensive line starters that every single team passed over. Fact is there are more offensive lineman starting in the NFL that came from round 3 - UDFA than there is Round 1-2. every team has passed over these guys. Some of these guys just developed better. Some developed better from their coaching and even just maturity. We have skipped over some, but we also got better at other positions because of it. I personally believe a big part of it was our coaching, not 100% just our scouting and Rick. A lot of other teams just seem to do a lot better at developing offensive lineman. It seems like us and Seattle have just struggled to do this (yes there are other teams but we stand out) But last year something happened and we just happened to get a guy early that played well. Im interested to see what the new coaching staff will do. Maybe they will just come in and re-develop this. Maybe we can make something happen to improve it. Im far from saying we will be the Cowboys for offensive lineman, but if we can improve just enough to become middle of the road or better just from coaching scheming and maybe a couple of young faces we could just do that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopherwrestler Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 6 minutes ago, gopherwrestler said: Also..... maybe this is Waynes..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byuvike88 Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 6 minutes ago, gopherwrestler said: Also..... maybe this is Waynes..... At this point, I am less inclined to trade him. There really aren't any offensive lineman on the market that should require a large contract. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolmonite26 Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 7 minutes ago, gopherwrestler said: A lot of other teams just seem to do a lot better at developing offensive lineman This is my position, personally. While, yes, I do believe there have been some blunders on the player acquisition side, the sheer number of linemen added by the FO should have yielded more starting talent by the coaching staff than we have seen. I also believe that adding Kubiak will help this a lot 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolmonite26 Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, byuvike88 said: At this point, I am less inclined to trade him. There really aren't any offensive lineman on the market that should require a large contract. But a 1st or 2nd rounder looks mighty nice, especially if he isnt a part of the team's future plans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopherwrestler Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 https://raisingzona.com/2019/03/16/vikings-wide-receiver-could-be-an-arizona-cardinals-trade-target/ The most intriguing aspect of trading for Treadwell is his low value. The Vikings aren’t expected to acquire more than a late-round pick if they were to trade him away, but, they might have to do so despite his the lack of trade value. The Vikings have just $2.3 million in cap space, per Over The Cap, and need to make rebuilding their offensive line a priority. If the Arizona Cardinals do acquire Treadwell, they might be able to get the best out of him in a potentially larger role than he has ever seen in Minnesota Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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