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1 hour ago, vikingsrule said:

He wasn’t great before the diagnosis, not sure it would have changed anything. He and Erasmus James were the reason trading for Jared Allen was necessary and ultimately rebuilding a defense wa necessary.

Eventually they started hitting on DEs but they had to go to round four. 

 

 

Well he came on right before I started so I'll take your word for it.

Weird that we suddenly figured out the DE position after we traded for Allen. Hoping that continues.

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On 1/19/2021 at 7:35 PM, Cearbhall said:

This is the first I saw it. That trade was a disaster for Rick Spielman. He should have never traded a second round pick for a single year from a player. When the trade was announced I had assumed they planned to keep Ngakoue around for a long time. It turned out that once the one season went sideways they unloaded him to salvage what they can. That is better than not salvaging anything, but it does expose the original trade as being a 2nd round pick for a one year rental, which was a terrible decision.

It wasn’t the season going sideways that led to them trading Ngakoue away. It was the lack of fit. 
 

Now, that still falls on Spielman and the pro scouting staff for bringing in a player that either wouldn’t buy in to the way we do things, or was unable to. Perhaps Zimmer asked them to go out and get another pass rusher and Ngakoue was the best on the market.

 

The intention, at least I believe, was never to have this be a one year deal for a 2nd. It was going to be a sign to an extension, or franchise and move to at least get that 2nd back pending his season.

 

with the benefit of hindsight, it did turn out to be a very poor trade. 

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14 hours ago, RpMc said:

It wasn’t the season going sideways that led to them trading Ngakoue away. It was the lack of fit. 

I don't know about that. He seemed to fit just fine. Even after being traded away after just six games he was still the Vikings sack leader after the team played the rest of the schedule. He causes fumbles too. Production like that can always fit on the team.

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1 hour ago, Cearbhall said:

I don't know about that. He seemed to fit just fine. Even after being traded away after just six games he was still the Vikings sack leader after the team played the rest of the schedule. He causes fumbles too. Production like that can always fit on the team.

Agreed. Think it was more of a run-game fit then pass rushing.

Him and Hunter would have been fun to watch had they been able to make contracts work out. 

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2 hours ago, Cearbhall said:

I don't know about that. He seemed to fit just fine. Even after being traded away after just six games he was still the Vikings sack leader after the team played the rest of the schedule. He causes fumbles too. Production like that can always fit on the team.

That is the explicit reasoning given by Zimmer and Andre Patterson.  He did not fit.

Ngakoue came from a system/scheme in an under front where the weak end (mostly termed the LEO), did not have the same run support responsibilities that we ask from our ends in our over front.  In Jacksonville he was mainly asked to play out wide as a 7 or a 9, and the Vikings play that end in more of a 5 technique in base situations.

Again, Ngakoue not being a fit is a reason to question the decision making of the pro personnel staff, but there's no debate over the reason Ngakoue was cut loose when it was explicitly stated by his position coach and coordinator (coaches typically aren't that fortcoming).  For better or for worse, Zimmer wants his ends playing run to pass with lane integrity, and that wasn't the way Ngakoue played the game in college or the pros.

Sack production =\= fit.

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3 hours ago, RpMc said:

That is the explicit reasoning given by Zimmer and Andre Patterson.  He did not fit.

You are going to have to forgive me if you think that I should believe everything a coach says at face value.

What I actually saw was that the line's run defense stunk even when Ngakoue wasn't there. The pass rush was the worst we've seen in many years when Ngakoue wasn't there. When Ngakoue was there the run defense wasn't worse and the pass rush was significantly better.

I don't expect the team to publicly say that they brought him in for one year and they were giving up on the season. Do you? They spun it with the only story that wouldn't make them look bad. At least not as bad. When people aren't completely forthcoming they always tell their side of a story in the way that shades things to look as favorably for them as possible.

To my eye, Ngakoue was far better than anything else the Vikings had going on the line. Coaches adjust to player strengths/weaknesses if they are any good. They don't ship of the only good thing they have because they don't want to adjust. The reason they would have shipped him off has to be something else.

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Agree to disagree then. Given everything we know about Zimmer, particularly about the defensive side of the ball, shipping a player out because he doesn’t fit what you want to do absolutely makes the most sense. 

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9 minutes ago, RpMc said:

Agree to disagree then. Given everything we know about Zimmer, particularly about the defensive side of the ball, shipping a player out because he doesn’t fit what you want to do absolutely makes the most sense. 

And it's not the first time he's done it.  Gerald Hodges anyone?

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2 minutes ago, SemperFeist said:

Run play to the left, Hodges to the right, won’t be stuck in the middle with you...

And it's also not like he was banging the table to bring Sheldon Richardson back.  It's almost par for the course to know when Zimmer feels a defensive player doesn't fit what he's looking for them to do.

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Zimmer wants his defensive linemen to keep contain when they rush.  Richardson would leave holes open big enough to drive a small car through.

I wouldn't hesitate to draft a DE in the 1st.  You can't afford to wait on a 4th round DE to develop when you only have 1 above average pass rusher on your entire roster (Hunter).

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Broncos fan in peace here. Just wondering what you think the chances are that Harrison Smith could be on the trade block? I know you guys are over the cap for 2021 and he’s getting on a bit.

 

If so, what do you think he’s worth in a trade?

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36 minutes ago, paul-mac said:

Broncos fan in peace here. Just wondering what you think the chances are that Harrison Smith could be on the trade block? I know you guys are over the cap for 2021 and he’s getting on a bit.

 

If so, what do you think he’s worth in a trade?

Extremely low chance Smith would get traded. Vikings will most surely let Harris walk this year. Zim wouldn't want to start 2 new Safeties with young CB's. Also, Smith contract doesn't have any guarantee money left. Smith is a prime candidate for a contract extension with a lower base salary in 2021 to provide cap space.  

Edited by dc_vikingfan
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