(Polls) John Dorsey, Darnold Vs. Mayfield, & the Case of Mahomes

[AkronsWitness]

2 hours ago, bruceb said:

1. That scenario assumes that we are stupid enough to pick up anything other than a vet QB who is possibly more than a bridge to the 1st overall pick.

If we were to do something stupid (Cousins), that scenario might unfold.

If we are less stupid (Smith),"(W) it could but probably won't.

2. "(W)orst and talent depleted roster in NFL history?

Sorry, but you just lost all credibility, man.

Yep I understand you point, but the original question was about Alex Smith in particular, not anybody else. The original post was saying that we should get Alex Smith AND draft Darnold #1 overall. To which I said Alex Smith's cost to get is far greater than a 1 year rental. If we get a veteran QB in the mold of AJ McCarron, Ryan Fitzpatick or even (Ill say it) bring back Josh McCown for 1 year then Darnold at #1 overall is completely acceptable.

At the end of the day---the cost the Browns will have to give up to get Alex Smith far outweighs a 1 year rental, which is why I shut down the idea of him AND drafting a QB #1 overall. Alex Smith is not like Kirk Cousins in the sense that all you need is to toss money around. Alex Smith is going to cost us legit high round draft picks. You dont give up high rounders for a 1 year rental which would be the case if you also drafted Darnold on top of that.

Its either Alex Smith OR Sam Darnold---to get both would be blowing all of your resources. 

[AkronsWitness]

1 hour ago, DawgX said:

I wouldn't say we're the most talent depleted team in the league right now, let alone in history.

It's far from a guarantee that we'll trade for Smith anyway, and even if we did, he may only start for a year or two. Similar to when Cincinnati drafted Palmer 1st overall yet Kitna started his first year.

 I only meant that the Browns are one of the most talent depleted team in NFL history because we just became the 2nd team ever to go 0-16.

[StewieRules]

8 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

Oh, so you think the Browns should be the first team in NFL history to bench the 1st overall pick for multiple years with the worst and talent depleted roster in NFL history?

Brilliant....thats a sure way to success.

In aviation, we have something we refer to as situational awareness; that's what is lacking here.  IF we bring in Smith, who's 34, that action should not preclude them from drafting Darnold at 1 (or Rosen, though I like Darnold for the Browns better) even if he ends up sitting for 2-3 years given that a) Darnold is TWENTY  with only two years of college QB experience  and  played LB for half his high school years b) the financial cost isn't like it used to be in the old days and c) talent level around him needs to improve.  Success comes from understanding the situation you currently find yourself in, not from feeling a compulsion to play someone because he's a number one pick.  

If you want a historical argument, then I'd use history to look at the success rate of a 6-foot tall QB of average athletic ability in the NFL over the last twenty years, then sprinkle in the success rate of those who come in with a love of the night life and an incident(s) of off the field issues involving booze.  This is why, to me, talk of Mayfield 1st overall is hysterical.  

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

6 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

Yep I understand you point, but the original question was about Alex Smith in particular, not anybody else. The original post was saying that we should get Alex Smith AND draft Darnold #1 overall. To which I said Alex Smith's cost to get is far greater than a 1 year rental. If we get a veteran QB in the mold of AJ McCarron, Ryan Fitzpatick or even (Ill say it) bring back Josh McCown for 1 year then Darnold at #1 overall is completely acceptable.

At the end of the day---the cost the Browns will have to give up to get Alex Smith far outweighs a 1 year rental, which is why I shut down the idea of him AND drafting a QB #1 overall. Alex Smith is not like Kirk Cousins in the sense that all you need is to toss money around. Alex Smith is going to cost us legit high round draft picks. You dont give up high rounders for a 1 year rental which would be the case if you also drafted Darnold on top of that.

Its either Alex Smith OR Sam Darnold---to get both would be blowing all of your resources. 

If we’re being honest, we have no clue what Smith will cost.

If it’s a second and some change, that’s fine, I’m still drafting Darnold. We’ve got plenty of picks and have needed a qb since the 80’s.  If it takes 2-3 draft picks this year to get an established vet and a guy who can lock down the next 15 years, I’m good with that.

[MWil23]

6 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

And Im the person saying that you dont give up a 2nd round pick + change for a 1 year stop gap in Alex Smith, because thats what it will cost. 

Notice, I said a veteran. Alex Smith would be nice. We'll see if it works or not. As for a 2nd and change, I don't see that. KC has blatantly tipped their hand acknowledging moving on from Smith to start Mahommes. That just drove his value WAY down. Even a bidding war won't make his value that high IMO. 

6 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

So just so that we are on the same page, you are willing to give up a 2nd + change for a 1 year rental of Alex Smith and draft Darnold #1 overall?

See above. Plus, if Smith's value is really a "2nd and change" this year, the same logic applies to 2019 that he would get comparable value. Who is to say, if the Browns traded for him that they wouldn't rework his deal to a 2-3 year deal and then flip him again in 2019?

[Mind Character]

I've been going all in on Baker Mayfield's games...rewatching them, trying to do everything I can to find the things that make me comfortable passing on Rosen/Darnold for him because I really believe it's an inevitability that Dorsey takes Baker.

It's funny, Baker gets so much credit for the OSU game this year...people compare Baker's OSU game stat to Darnold's, but I've now watched Darnold's and Baker's games versus OSU 4 times from the ALL22 angle, and it couldn't be more clear that Baker didn't really do anything in the OSU game. All his passes were underneath catch and run throws. His TDs the same...underneath screens or quick outs that were wide open and the RB/WR ran for big chunk yardage. To get in scoring range, he benefited from huge PI calls on bad deep throws and underthrows. There was arguably 1 big time sideline throw that came somewhere in the 9 minute mark in the 4th Quarter. Outside of that it was all layups and catch and runs.

For Darnold, there were multiple back shoulder throws, multiple deep pass big time throws, blitz avoidance reset accurate throws middle of the field, as well as the bad throws, fumbles, etc. There's so many times Darnold was under duress and made big time throws.

Watching the games consecutively side by side clarifies who in terms of pro translatable skills played the better game.

 

[dawgdish]

On 1/28/2018 at 8:37 PM, Forge said:

I don't know why, but I think he's definitely in the running...like, there's a realistic shot at him being the pick type running I mean. I think there's a better chance that you go Allen 1 then I do Rosen. Nothing to support that, of course. Just my own thinking

Years of trauma from Browns first round fails could support this awful  hunch.

Let's hope Dorsey is smarter than that and this is all just silly season smoke spreading.

[Bonanza23]

5 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

I've been going all in on Baker Mayfield's games...rewatching them, trying to do everything I can to find the things that make me comfortable passing on Rosen/Darnold for him because I really believe it's an inevitability that Dorsey takes Baker.

It's funny, Baker gets so much credit for the OSU game this year...people compare Baker's OSU game stat to Darnold's, but I've now watched Darnold's and Baker's games versus OSU 4 times from the ALL22 angle, and it couldn't be more clear that Baker didn't really do anything in the OSU game. All his passes were underneath catch and run throws. His TDs the same...underneath screens or quick outs that were wide open and the RB/WR ran for big chunk yardage. To get in scoring range, he benefited from huge PI calls on bad deep throws and underthrows. There was arguably 1 big time sideline throw that came somewhere in the 9 minute mark in the 4th Quarter. Outside of that it was all layups and catch and runs.

For Darnold, there were multiple back shoulder throws, multiple deep pass big time throws, blitz avoidance reset accurate throws middle of the field, as well as the bad throws, fumbles, etc. There's so many times Darnold was under duress and made big time throws.

Watching the games consecutively side by side clarifies who in terms of pro translatable skills played the better game.

 

Yep. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

54 minutes ago, dawgdish said:

Years of trauma from Browns first round fails could support this awful  hunch.

Let's hope Dorsey is smarter than that and this is all just silly season smoke spreading.

If his pressers are any indication we’re SOL.

[bruceb]

4 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

If his pressers are any indication we’re SOL.

Agree.

Not awfully cerebral.

And painfully awkward at trying to be politically correct.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

50 minutes ago, bruceb said:

Agree.

Not awfully cerebral.

And painfully awkward at trying to be politically correct.

Lol right?!?

I just sit here and think “that’s not a difficult question to answer well” after he trips over his nuts.

Jimmy should have promoted Sashi to EVP or something and given Dorsey control of the roster but let Sashi be the one talking and thinking at the same time. My man seems overmatched at times.