Thaiphoon Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 20 hours ago, mike23md said: So he is guaranteed his money up front from this year which is 17M. He will make ~ 23.5M next season which is = 40M. The next ~30M is likely to be based on performance and potential incentives that would essentially guarantee him 30M for 1 more year. Many have speculated that he would only get a salary of 30M guaranteed if he were to be injured or something like that. But there is the potential for him to be cut after 2019. This is what I have heard. Wont know the contract details until March 4. But its 71m guaranteed total. These weren't performance bonuses. They were guarantees. I do believe that if we got rid of him in year 2, the rest of the guaranteed money accelerates into year 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostnote Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 1 minute ago, Thaiphoon said: But its 71m guaranteed total. These weren't performance bonuses. They were guarantees. I do believe that if we got rid of him in year 2, the rest of the guaranteed money accelerates into year 3. Teams are now throwing injury guarantees into the mix. So it makes it seem like more than it is. Again, wont know the complete details until the contract is done in March. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Just now, mike23md said: Teams are now throwing injury guarantees into the mix. So it makes it seem like more than it is. Again, wont know the complete details until the contract is done in March. Ok. I just don't see, right now, how its not at least a 3 year stay of Smith here. Then again, maybe he blows the doors off an we don't want him to leave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostnote Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Just now, Thaiphoon said: Ok. I just don't see, right now, how its not at least a 3 year stay of Smith here. Then again, maybe he blows the doors off an we don't want him to leave? Ok, so you remember the issue with Griffin and the Redskins picking up his 5th year option, he would have been guaranteed 16M if he were to be injured, so he was inactive for 15 out of the 16 games that season? Think of it this way. I believe that Bortles has the same thing in his contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 19 hours ago, Dashing202 said: He's a football player a former football player . And? That means nothing. Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player ever, and he has been an awful GM. Being a former player means nothing when drafting and scouting. Bill Belichick never played a down in the NFL. Neither did Kevin Colbert, GM for the Steelers, nor John Schneider, GM of the seahawks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dashing202 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 18 minutes ago, Slateman said: And? That means nothing. Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player ever, and he has been an awful GM. Being a former player means nothing when drafting and scouting. Bill Belichick never played a down in the NFL. Neither did Kevin Colbert, GM for the Steelers, nor John Schneider, GM of the seahawks. Isn't John elway a GM? And Doug Williams isn't an idiot . He's seen videos obvious about smith to say what he's saying . I trust his input on things . He wanted Lanier her if I'm not mistaken . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 58 minutes ago, Dashing202 said: Isn't John elway a GM? And Doug Williams isn't an idiot . He's seen videos obvious about smith to say what he's saying . I trust his input on things . He wanted Lanier her if I'm not mistaken . Is John Elway a good GM? Couldn't draft a franchise QB. Is now going to have to throw a ton of cash to get one in free agency. There is nothing in Doug Williams past history that shows he has any ability to scout potential NFL players. He was the scouting coordinator when the Bucs took Josh Freeman in the first round. But hey, he got a nice back up 3-4 DE. Yes, he should totally be trusted to pick a franchise QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dashing202 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 10 minutes ago, Slateman said: Is John Elway a good GM? Couldn't draft a franchise QB. Is now going to have to throw a ton of cash to get one in free agency. There is nothing in Doug Williams past history that shows he has any ability to scout potential NFL players. He was the scouting coordinator when the Bucs took Josh Freeman in the first round. But hey, he got a nice back up 3-4 DE. Yes, he should totally be trusted to pick a franchise QB. Elway picks do suck but he did the smart thing and GOT a qb. Smith is not anywhere near Peyton level but smith is a 3x- probowl qb that has a winning record . Yep, Lanier was a good pick up. And freeman declined it happend. But smith proven on two teams he can be okay . This isn't some rookie, smith is a very smart qb that is well liked . Doug Williams is a SB winning qb . im 100 percent sure he knows more than me and you. ??♂️??♂️??♂️??♂️??♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 3 hours ago, mike23md said: Ok, so you remember the issue with Griffin and the Redskins picking up his 5th year option, he would have been guaranteed 16M if he were to be injured, so he was inactive for 15 out of the 16 games that season? Think of it this way. I believe that Bortles has the same thing in his contract. Exactly Mike23, there’s a certain amount that’s guaranteed for injury. They put that in Cousins’ offer from last summer too. On the surface, it looks like $71 million guaranteed but when that final guaranteed year is just for injury, it’s not a true guarantee because we could cut him. That would make the contract something we could have gotten out of after 2 or 3 years just like the offer they gave Kirk. Like Thai said, maybe Kirk blows the door off, plays well and this isn’t even an issue because we’ll want to keep him even if we could get out of his contract after 2 or 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Slateman said: Is John Elway a good GM? Couldn't draft a franchise QB. Is now going to have to throw a ton of cash to get one in free agency. There is nothing in Doug Williams past history that shows he has any ability to scout potential NFL players. He was the scouting coordinator when the Bucs took Josh Freeman in the first round. But hey, he got a nice back up 3-4 DE. Yes, he should totally be trusted to pick a franchise QB. He leanrned under Scot McCloughan for two years, and even if they didn’t have many great picks while at the bucs, that doesn’t mean he wasn’t learning and doing a scouting job. Mccloughan had Doug and others under him watch tape, take notes and them come back to him afterwards and then he’d watch the film with them and they’d go over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 9 hours ago, turtle28 said: He leanrned under Scot McCloughan for two years, and even if they didn’t have many great picks while at the bucs, that doesn’t mean he wasn’t learning and doing a scouting job. Mccloughan had Doug and others under him watch tape, take notes and them come back to him afterwards and then he’d watch the film with them and they’d go over it. He was never a scout so how did he learn? You have no evidence to support any of this. Furthermore, exactly how much is he going to learn in two years? If it only takes two years, why not just go sign one of SM's actual scouts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, Slateman said: He was never a scout so how did he learn? You have no evidence to support any of this. Furthermore, exactly how much is he going to learn in two years? And you have no proof to the contrary, so you can believe what you want and I can believe what I want. Also, we all know McCloughan is a hell of a scouting mind so unless you’re going to say McCloughan wasn’t a good teacher, I’d say Doug could learn a lot from McCloughan in 2 offseaons and part of a 3rd. Lastly, our top scout for the draft is Kyle Smith. I’m sure Kyle and his field scouts will do the true grunt work and then go to Doug and Bruce and present/explain what they’ve found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostnote Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 At this juncture, I dont want to discredit Williams and his ability to either scout or not, I can tell you that he did coach at Grambling and has experience scouting with Jax and the Bucs. Whether good or not, he has some experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 20 hours ago, turtle28 said: Now, now woz. You get on me for doing stuff like this in my projections for how a player could improve from his last season to his next, but it’s OK for you to take an average of what Smith did in his career and say that’s what he’s going to be with us? Sorry, not buying it! Because I'm looking at a twelve year career and realizing that beyond 2012 and 2017 (when first the Chiefs and now apparently us bought high after career years), Alex Smith has done little to justify being in the league. I believe those two years to be outliers and that the other years to be a true measure of his ability. I did not take a single year and then project how they'll do in the next. Maybe I'm wrong and he has taken the next step. I would feel safer betting on a reversion to his mean than to expect 2012/2017 numbers. Keep in mind that those two career years were after playing in San Francisco for six previous seasons and Kansas City for four. I would be very surprised if we see a repeat of his stellar season in a brand new system with new players. 21 hours ago, turtle28 said: Just like you didn’t want to listen when I talked about how Grant could have 40 to 50 catches and 3 or 4 TDs for us in 2017 because of more playing time, I don’t really care what Smith’s stats looked like when he was a 21 year old rookie, or less than 25 while he was developing on bad teams in San Fran, what his stats were in Harbaugh’s run first/ball control offense when his best reciving option for 5 or 6 years was VD - a TE - or what his stats were when he threw the ball 115 less times than Kirk in 2016 or 70 less times than Kirk in 2015. On Grant: I didn't buy it. You're right. Why? Track record didn't seem to say that it was in him from a talent level, but also as you say a playing time level. He had been behind Garcon, Jackson, and Crowder. Going into the 2017 season, he was behind Pryor, Doctson and Crowder. Neither of us assumed that Crowder would have a terrible year, and I think we both thought Pryor would be a decent fill in for Garcon and not the stinking landfill he turned out to be. So, yeah, I was wrong on Grant, but I don't think that's due to Grant suddenly blossoming into a starting WR. Now, what I will concede is that he has value to this franchise; previously, I did not think that. On Smith's stats: It's why I quoted his time in Kansas City separately. They showed that he was better than his entire career numbers, but they were not what I would call world shattering. I also worry that they may be inflated thanks to Andy Reid. It's also why I quoted rate stats (independent of attempts). If you complete 6 throws out of 10 or 60 out of 100, you still have a completion percentage of 60%. Outside of 2012/2017, the rate stats are much closer to his career averages than they are to the outlier years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 On 1/30/2018 at 9:53 PM, Thaiphoon said: 4) I wonder what this does to our forum this offseason and will it make it easier or harder to moderate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.