MKnight82 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Woz said: Again, that's not correct. The timing would be tight, but any team we traded Cousins to could give him a new contract provided it was done before the July timeframe. Did you read the CBA quote? Only the team that tags him can extend that player on 3rd year tags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 We've now allowed two 1K yard receivers leave in the same off-season which was unprecedented and now we'll be the only franchise to allow a top 10 QB to walk away with basically zero compensation. I don't want to hear about the third round compensation pick but that's not compensation for a guy who's going to be the highest paid player in the league. This is a disaster. I can't believe people are actually saying this is a good deal. Bruce Allen is just Cerrato all over again and he's not going anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dashing202 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, Woz said: In hoping that he could later fleece the Redskins? Well, it worked. No, he was asking for what he was worth. The Redskins insisted on lowballing him at each turn. As far as has been announced, they have never offered that to Cousins. After his first year starting, they offered him 12.5M AAV and then finally went up to 16M. The following year they went 16M and finally stopped at 19M. He's not a victim. He wants to be fairly compensated. And focusing on a single game is the BS that fans do to justify this franchise's idiocy in their own eyes. On this point, I'll concede Alex Smith is better. Over the past five seasons: Smith's INT% = 1.35% Cousins' INT% = 2.54% Of course, that's the only major stat Smith wins on: Smith's Completion% = 65.1% Cousins' Completion% = 65.4% Smith's YPA = 7.23 Cousins' YPA =7.69 Smith's TD% = 4.19% Cousins' TD% = 4.64% We just traded for a five year older version of Cousins. He had other crappy games . Eagles week 1 wasn't s good game and in week 2 he struggled . He bounced back against the 49ers . Where getting blown out by the Vikings, he did awful against both cowboys game ( although that first one was awful weather conditions ). he was inconsistent and some games where out of hand . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 9 minutes ago, Dashing202 said: Brunell was washed up he was clearly not the same guy . Smith just made the probowl and beat the patriots week 1. Smith made the Pro Bowl as second alternate. Had Rivers not backed out, he doesn't make the Pro Bowl. Smith played out of his mind in week 1. Kareem Hunt also did a bit to help there. Just a tad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Dashing202 said: He had other crappy games . Eagles week 1 wasn't s good game and in week 2 he struggled . He bounced back against the 49ers . Where getting blown out by the Vikings, he did awful against both cowboys game ( although that first one was awful weather conditions ). he was inconsistent and some games where out of hand . The issue is Fuller. I can accept moving on from Kirk. I can accept dealing a third or god forbid, a second. I cannot accept dealing a third, Kendall Fuller and then paying Smith $24M a year when we could've dealt Kirk, drafted his replacement and still added young talent to this defense with the picks we acquired for Kirk and the saved cap space. This is about as bad as it gets. I do not accept this as best case scenario and I think this is what happens when football-minded front offices make deals with fantasy football front offices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Just now, MKnight82 said: Did you read the CBA quote? Only the team that tags him can extend that player on 3rd year tags. My read on that was that the third tag would be guaranteed to be an exclusive franchise tag. However, I don't think that means if he was traded that his new franchise (who would gain the new contract and all its stipulations) would not be able to sign him to a long term deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Alex Smith Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD AV Career 156 151 88-62-1 2877 4613 62.4 31888 183 4.0 96 2.1 80 6.9 6.8 11.1 204.4 87.4 388 2203 5.94 5.80 7.8 19 23 112 7 yrs SFO 80 75 38-36-1 1290 2177 59.3 14280 81 3.7 63 2.9 75 6.6 6.0 11.1 178.5 79.1 196 1182 5.52 5.01 8.3 10 12 40 5 yrs KAN 76 76 50-26-0 1587 2436 65.1 17608 102 4.2 33 1.4 80 7.2 7.5 11.1 231.7 94.8 192 1021 6.31 6.52 7.3 9 11 72 2005 21 SFO qb 11 9 7 2-5-0 84 165 50.9 875 1 0.6 11 6.7 47 5.3 2.4 10.4 97.2 40.8 29 185 3.56 1.11 14.9 1 2 -3 2006 22 SFO QB 11 16 16 7-9-0 257 442 58.1 2890 16 3.6 16 3.6 75 6.5 5.6 11.2 180.6 74.8 46.4 35 202 5.64 4.80 7.3 1 2 10 2007 23 SFO qb 11 7 7 2-5-0 94 193 48.7 914 2 1.0 4 2.1 45 4.7 4.0 9.7 130.6 57.2 19.5 17 121 3.78 3.11 8.1 2 2 0 2009 25 SFO QB 11 11 10 5-5-0 225 372 60.5 2350 18 4.8 12 3.2 73 6.3 5.8 10.4 213.6 81.5 45.0 22 134 5.62 5.17 5.6 7 2010 26 SFO QB 11 11 10 3-7-0 204 342 59.6 2370 14 4.1 10 2.9 62 6.9 6.4 11.6 215.5 82.1 46.2 25 140 6.08 5.61 6.8 6 2011 27 SFO QB 11 16 16 13-3-0 273 445 61.3 3144 17 3.8 5 1.1 56 7.1 7.3 11.5 196.5 90.7 57.2 44 263 5.89 6.13 9.0 6 6 13 2012 28 SFO QB 11 10 9 6-2-1 153 218 70.2 1737 13 6.0 5 2.3 55 8.0 8.1 11.4 173.7 104.1 67.3 24 137 6.61 6.76 9.9 7 2013* 29 KAN QB 11 15 15 11-4-0 308 508 60.6 3313 23 4.5 7 1.4 71 6.5 6.8 10.8 220.9 89.1 48.1 39 210 5.67 5.94 7.1 1 1 14 2014 30 KAN QB 11 15 15 8-7-0 303 464 65.3 3265 18 3.9 6 1.3 70 7.0 7.2 10.8 217.7 93.4 56.8 45 229 5.96 6.14 8.8 3 3 13 2015 31 KAN QB 11 16 16 11-5-0 307 470 65.3 3486 20 4.3 7 1.5 80 7.4 7.6 11.4 217.9 95.4 64.1 45 235 6.31 6.48 8.7 1 1 16 2016* 32 KAN QB 11 15 15 11-4-0 328 489 67.1 3502 15 3.1 8 1.6 80 7.2 7.0 10.7 233.5 91.2 66.1 28 140 6.50 6.39 5.4 3 3 12 2017* 33 KAN QB 11 15 15 9-6-0 341 505 67.5 4042 26 5.1 5 1.0 79 8.0 8.6 11.9 269.5 104.7 63.4 35 207 7.10 7.65 6.5 1 3 17 Kirk Cousins Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD AV Career 62 57 26-30-1 1372 2096 65.5 16206 99 4.7 55 2.6 81 7.7 7.5 11.8 261.4 93.7 106 847 6.98 6.75 4.8 8 12 43 2012 24 WAS qb 12 3 1 1-0-0 33 48 68.8 466 4 8.3 3 6.3 77 9.7 8.6 14.1 155.3 101.6 79.0 3 27 8.61 7.53 5.9 1 1 2 2013 25 WAS qb 12 5 3 0-3-0 81 155 52.3 854 4 2.6 7 4.5 62 5.5 4.0 10.5 170.8 58.4 38.8 5 32 5.14 3.67 3.1 -2 2014 26 WAS qb 8 6 5 1-4-0 126 204 61.8 1710 10 4.9 9 4.4 81 8.4 7.4 13.6 285.0 86.4 55.8 8 70 7.74 6.77 3.8 4 2015 27 WAS QB 8 16 16 9-7-0 379 543 69.8 4166 29 5.3 11 2.0 78 7.7 7.8 11.0 260.4 101.6 71.0 26 186 6.99 7.14 4.6 2 3 12 2016* 28 WAS QB 8 16 16 8-7-1 406 606 67.0 4917 25 4.1 12 2.0 80 8.1 8.0 12.1 307.3 97.2 71.7 23 190 7.52 7.45 3.7 4 4 15 2017 29 WAS QB 8 16 16 7-9-0 347 540 64.3 4093 27 5.0 13 2.4 74 7.6 7.5 11.8 255.8 93.9 50.0 41 342 6.46 6.38 7.1 1 4 12 It took Alex Smith 12 seasons to get to the 4,000 yard passing mark. A feat Kirk Cousins accomplished in his first 3 fulls years as a starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dashing202 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, Woz said: Smith made the Pro Bowl as second alternate. Had Rivers not backed out, he doesn't make the Pro Bowl. Smith played out of his mind in week 1. Kareem Hunt also did a bit to help there. Just a tad. Smith had a very good year he threw three touchdowns in the playoffs. He could of arguably finished with 28-29 touchdowns had he not sat down for week 17. rivers was good tho I'll say that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Dashing202 said: He had other crappy games . Eagles week 1 wasn't s good game and in week 2 he struggled . He bounced back against the 49ers . Where getting blown out by the Vikings, he did awful against both cowboys game ( although that first one was awful weather conditions ). he was inconsistent and some games where out of hand . There's a reason I gave their 5 year history. Yes, players are going to have bad games. But look at the entire track record. It washes out the spectacular games (say Oakland or New Orleans this year) as well as the bad ones. It smooths the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, Woz said: My read on that was that the third tag would be guaranteed to be an exclusive franchise tag. However, I don't think that means if he was traded that his new franchise (who would gain the new contract and all its stipulations) would not be able to sign him to a long term deal. If the Club designates the player as a Franchise Player for the third time, the designating Club shall be the only Club with which the player may negotiate or sign a Player Contract. How can that be read any other way. The "designating club", or the Redskins, shall be the only club with which the player may negotiate with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dashing202 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 10 minutes ago, MKnight82 said: Alex Smith Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD AV Career 156 151 88-62-1 2877 4613 62.4 31888 183 4.0 96 2.1 80 6.9 6.8 11.1 204.4 87.4 388 2203 5.94 5.80 7.8 19 23 112 7 yrs SFO 80 75 38-36-1 1290 2177 59.3 14280 81 3.7 63 2.9 75 6.6 6.0 11.1 178.5 79.1 196 1182 5.52 5.01 8.3 10 12 40 5 yrs KAN 76 76 50-26-0 1587 2436 65.1 17608 102 4.2 33 1.4 80 7.2 7.5 11.1 231.7 94.8 192 1021 6.31 6.52 7.3 9 11 72 2005 21 SFO qb 11 9 7 2-5-0 84 165 50.9 875 1 0.6 11 6.7 47 5.3 2.4 10.4 97.2 40.8 29 185 3.56 1.11 14.9 1 2 -3 2006 22 SFO QB 11 16 16 7-9-0 257 442 58.1 2890 16 3.6 16 3.6 75 6.5 5.6 11.2 180.6 74.8 46.4 35 202 5.64 4.80 7.3 1 2 10 2007 23 SFO qb 11 7 7 2-5-0 94 193 48.7 914 2 1.0 4 2.1 45 4.7 4.0 9.7 130.6 57.2 19.5 17 121 3.78 3.11 8.1 2 2 0 2009 25 SFO QB 11 11 10 5-5-0 225 372 60.5 2350 18 4.8 12 3.2 73 6.3 5.8 10.4 213.6 81.5 45.0 22 134 5.62 5.17 5.6 7 2010 26 SFO QB 11 11 10 3-7-0 204 342 59.6 2370 14 4.1 10 2.9 62 6.9 6.4 11.6 215.5 82.1 46.2 25 140 6.08 5.61 6.8 6 2011 27 SFO QB 11 16 16 13-3-0 273 445 61.3 3144 17 3.8 5 1.1 56 7.1 7.3 11.5 196.5 90.7 57.2 44 263 5.89 6.13 9.0 6 6 13 2012 28 SFO QB 11 10 9 6-2-1 153 218 70.2 1737 13 6.0 5 2.3 55 8.0 8.1 11.4 173.7 104.1 67.3 24 137 6.61 6.76 9.9 7 2013* 29 KAN QB 11 15 15 11-4-0 308 508 60.6 3313 23 4.5 7 1.4 71 6.5 6.8 10.8 220.9 89.1 48.1 39 210 5.67 5.94 7.1 1 1 14 2014 30 KAN QB 11 15 15 8-7-0 303 464 65.3 3265 18 3.9 6 1.3 70 7.0 7.2 10.8 217.7 93.4 56.8 45 229 5.96 6.14 8.8 3 3 13 2015 31 KAN QB 11 16 16 11-5-0 307 470 65.3 3486 20 4.3 7 1.5 80 7.4 7.6 11.4 217.9 95.4 64.1 45 235 6.31 6.48 8.7 1 1 16 2016* 32 KAN QB 11 15 15 11-4-0 328 489 67.1 3502 15 3.1 8 1.6 80 7.2 7.0 10.7 233.5 91.2 66.1 28 140 6.50 6.39 5.4 3 3 12 2017* 33 KAN QB 11 15 15 9-6-0 341 505 67.5 4042 26 5.1 5 1.0 79 8.0 8.6 11.9 269.5 104.7 63.4 35 207 7.10 7.65 6.5 1 3 17 Kirk Cousins Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD AV Career 62 57 26-30-1 1372 2096 65.5 16206 99 4.7 55 2.6 81 7.7 7.5 11.8 261.4 93.7 106 847 6.98 6.75 4.8 8 12 43 2012 24 WAS qb 12 3 1 1-0-0 33 48 68.8 466 4 8.3 3 6.3 77 9.7 8.6 14.1 155.3 101.6 79.0 3 27 8.61 7.53 5.9 1 1 2 2013 25 WAS qb 12 5 3 0-3-0 81 155 52.3 854 4 2.6 7 4.5 62 5.5 4.0 10.5 170.8 58.4 38.8 5 32 5.14 3.67 3.1 -2 2014 26 WAS qb 8 6 5 1-4-0 126 204 61.8 1710 10 4.9 9 4.4 81 8.4 7.4 13.6 285.0 86.4 55.8 8 70 7.74 6.77 3.8 4 2015 27 WAS QB 8 16 16 9-7-0 379 543 69.8 4166 29 5.3 11 2.0 78 7.7 7.8 11.0 260.4 101.6 71.0 26 186 6.99 7.14 4.6 2 3 12 2016* 28 WAS QB 8 16 16 8-7-1 406 606 67.0 4917 25 4.1 12 2.0 80 8.1 8.0 12.1 307.3 97.2 71.7 23 190 7.52 7.45 3.7 4 4 15 2017 29 WAS QB 8 16 16 7-9-0 347 540 64.3 4093 27 5.0 13 2.4 74 7.6 7.5 11.8 255.8 93.9 50.0 41 342 6.46 6.38 7.1 1 4 12 It took Alex Smith 12 seasons to get to the 4,000 yard passing mark. A feat Kirk Cousins accomplished in his first 3 fulls years as a starter. Because Kirk cousins from that that chart also thrown more than smith did to McKnight . Cousins pass attempts : 2015-543 2016-603 2017-540 Smith attempts : 2015-470 2016-489 2017-505 gotta remember we throw arguably more than most teams not named the patriots and saints . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Just now, MKnight82 said: Alex Smith Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD AV Career 156 151 88-62-1 2877 4613 62.4 31888 183 4.0 96 2.1 80 6.9 6.8 11.1 204.4 87.4 388 2203 5.94 5.80 7.8 19 23 112 7 yrs SFO 80 75 38-36-1 1290 2177 59.3 14280 81 3.7 63 2.9 75 6.6 6.0 11.1 178.5 79.1 196 1182 5.52 5.01 8.3 10 12 40 5 yrs KAN 76 76 50-26-0 1587 2436 65.1 17608 102 4.2 33 1.4 80 7.2 7.5 11.1 231.7 94.8 192 1021 6.31 6.52 7.3 9 11 72 2005 21 SFO qb 11 9 7 2-5-0 84 165 50.9 875 1 0.6 11 6.7 47 5.3 2.4 10.4 97.2 40.8 29 185 3.56 1.11 14.9 1 2 -3 2006 22 SFO QB 11 16 16 7-9-0 257 442 58.1 2890 16 3.6 16 3.6 75 6.5 5.6 11.2 180.6 74.8 46.4 35 202 5.64 4.80 7.3 1 2 10 2007 23 SFO qb 11 7 7 2-5-0 94 193 48.7 914 2 1.0 4 2.1 45 4.7 4.0 9.7 130.6 57.2 19.5 17 121 3.78 3.11 8.1 2 2 0 2009 25 SFO QB 11 11 10 5-5-0 225 372 60.5 2350 18 4.8 12 3.2 73 6.3 5.8 10.4 213.6 81.5 45.0 22 134 5.62 5.17 5.6 7 2010 26 SFO QB 11 11 10 3-7-0 204 342 59.6 2370 14 4.1 10 2.9 62 6.9 6.4 11.6 215.5 82.1 46.2 25 140 6.08 5.61 6.8 6 2011 27 SFO QB 11 16 16 13-3-0 273 445 61.3 3144 17 3.8 5 1.1 56 7.1 7.3 11.5 196.5 90.7 57.2 44 263 5.89 6.13 9.0 6 6 13 2012 28 SFO QB 11 10 9 6-2-1 153 218 70.2 1737 13 6.0 5 2.3 55 8.0 8.1 11.4 173.7 104.1 67.3 24 137 6.61 6.76 9.9 7 2013* 29 KAN QB 11 15 15 11-4-0 308 508 60.6 3313 23 4.5 7 1.4 71 6.5 6.8 10.8 220.9 89.1 48.1 39 210 5.67 5.94 7.1 1 1 14 2014 30 KAN QB 11 15 15 8-7-0 303 464 65.3 3265 18 3.9 6 1.3 70 7.0 7.2 10.8 217.7 93.4 56.8 45 229 5.96 6.14 8.8 3 3 13 2015 31 KAN QB 11 16 16 11-5-0 307 470 65.3 3486 20 4.3 7 1.5 80 7.4 7.6 11.4 217.9 95.4 64.1 45 235 6.31 6.48 8.7 1 1 16 2016* 32 KAN QB 11 15 15 11-4-0 328 489 67.1 3502 15 3.1 8 1.6 80 7.2 7.0 10.7 233.5 91.2 66.1 28 140 6.50 6.39 5.4 3 3 12 2017* 33 KAN QB 11 15 15 9-6-0 341 505 67.5 4042 26 5.1 5 1.0 79 8.0 8.6 11.9 269.5 104.7 63.4 35 207 7.10 7.65 6.5 1 3 17 Further, best completion percentage for a season 2012 (SFO) 2017 (KAN) 2016 (KAN) 2015 (KAN) 2014 (KAN) Best touchdown percentage for a season 2012 (SFO) 2017 (KAN) 2009 (SFO) 2013 (KAN) 2015 (KAN) Best interception percentage for a season 2017 (KAN) 2011 (SFO) 2014 (KAN) 2013 (KAN) 2015 (KAN) Best yards per attempt for a season 2012 (SFO) 2017 (KAN) 2015 (KAN) 2016 (KAN) 2011 (SFO) Best passer rating 2017 (KAN) 2012 (SFO) 2015 (KAN) 2014 (KAN) 2016 (KAN) Two things to note: Prior to this season, Alex Smith's best year was 2012. Why is that important? Because he was traded after that season was over. Andy Reid bought high. The Redskins followed Andy's mistake and bought high on a guy the franchise was essentially throwing out the door. Note how many times Alex Smith's best year in a category came while he was under Andy Reid's tutelage. Just like a team shouldn't pay top dollar for a Mike Shanahan running back, a team shouldn't pay top dollar for an Andy Reid quarterback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 9 minutes ago, MKnight82 said: If the Club designates the player as a Franchise Player for the third time, the designating Club shall be the only Club with which the player may negotiate or sign a Player Contract. How can that be read any other way. The "designating club", or the Redskins, shall be the only club with which the player may negotiate with. I interpreted that to mean that the third franchise tag automatically becomes exclusive. I don't know if that collides 10.2.k (below). Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. I hadn't seen that in any discussion of the lead up to franchising Cousins. I would have to believe some talking head on ESPN or NFL.com would have mentioned that before. Did I just miss it? Quote Any Club designating a Franchise Player shall have until 4:00 p.m., New York time, on July 15 of the League Year (or, if July 15 falls on a Saturday or Sunday, the first Monday thereafter) for which the designation takes effect to sign the player to a multiyear contract or extension. After that date, the player may sign only a one-year Player Contract with his Prior Club for that season, and such Player Contract may not be extended until after the Club’s last regular season game of that League Year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Woz said: I interpreted that to mean that the third franchise tag automatically becomes exclusive. I don't know if that collides 10.2.k (below). Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. I hadn't seen that in any discussion of the lead up to franchising Cousins. I would have to believe some talking head on ESPN or NFL.com would have mentioned that before. Did I just miss it? If you open the actual CBA document this is a whole separate restriction for Franchise Tags applied the 3rd time. It appears to be governed differently and I don't think the things available to typical exclusive tags apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 And they knew they weren't going to re-sign Kirk the whole time. So why didn't they just send the Pats a second round pick for Garappolo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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