footy_29 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 1 minute ago, Thaiphoon said: They won't. And then Cousins can simply sign the tender and tell the Redskins he won't seek any other offer and the Redskins have to pony up $28M for this season and have it count against their books. I'm really NOT seeing how the Redskins have any wiggle room here to gain any leverage in negotiations. And that is something I do a lot in my day job. Open your mind to the situation that Kirk finds himself in. Team tags him. He doesn't seek offers as a reaction. He loses a year of his prime sitting until he agrees to a trade or he hits free agency. The team holds a valuable year of his playing career under contract. He doesn't play if he stays. He needs to play to get paid. The team has a ton of leverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footy_29 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said: Cousins has already proved he will take the tag. I'd threaten to take the transition tag and pocket the $28m and not talk to anyone else if I'm him. There's literally ZERO chance the Redskins can chance having that $28M on their books. Because as soon as Kirk signs, it ALL gets applied against the cap. Look at spotrac or overthecap. They can if they wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 4 minutes ago, footy_29 said: Open your mind to the situation that Kirk finds himself in. Team tags him. He doesn't seek offers as a reaction. He loses a year of his prime sitting until he agrees to a trade or he hits free agency. The team holds a valuable year of his playing career under contract. He doesn't play if he stays. He needs to play to get paid. The team has a ton of leverage. He's getting paid. He just got $72m over 3 years and only had to start for 2. Meanwhile, teams know what he brings to the table. He'll still be a FA next year and can go where he wants (even if we trade him somewhere) and the Redskins are still caught holding the salary cap bag. Cousins has already called their bluff twice. And they blinked each time. This is not a winning move by the Redskins. Which is EXACTLY why Bruce will try to do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 4 minutes ago, footy_29 said: Look at spotrac or overthecap. They can if they wish. Quick back of the envelope math. Just looked at overthecap. Redskins have 52m. Cousins eats up $28m of it. Reducing it to $24m. Then you have Smith's contract which is probably going to take up between 14-17m of that. That leaves them 10m or less to sign FA and their draftees. So how did we improve our team this year with the salary cap savings from getting Smith cheaper than Kirk ir we also carry him as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 4 minutes ago, footy_29 said: Open your mind to the situation that Kirk finds himself in. Team tags him. He doesn't seek offers as a reaction. He loses a year of his prime sitting until he agrees to a trade or he hits free agency. The team holds a valuable year of his playing career under contract. He doesn't play if he stays. He needs to play to get paid. The team has a ton of leverage. Lol we're going to pay a QB $28 mil to sit at home. That sounds like the Redskins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Just now, Thaiphoon said: Quick back of the envelope math. Just looked at overthecap. Redskins have 52m. Cousins eats up $28m of it. Reducing it to $24m. Then you have Smith's contract which is probably going to take up between 14-17m of that. That leaves them 10m or less to sign FA and their draftees They also have to think about players that are FAs, like Zach Brown, Breeland, Spencer Long, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Just now, MKnight82 said: They also have to think about players that are FAs, like Zach Brown, Breeland, Spencer Long, etc. Right. This is what I'm saying. Remember, Kirk's tag is FULLY guaranteed. He eats up the entire 28m for 2018. This prevents us from signing pretty much anyone given that we need to sign our rookies and have cap room for guys to go on IR (like last year) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footy_29 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 1 minute ago, Thaiphoon said: He's getting paid. He just got $72m over 3 years and only had to start for 2. Meanwhile, teams know what he brings to the table. He'll still be a FA next year and can go where he wants (even if we trade him somewhere) and the Redskins are still caught holding the salary cap bag. This is not a winning move by the Redskins. Which is EXACTLY why Bruce will try to do it Teams will also see him as a year older. Cousins can get two more contracts in his career if he gets a 6/7 year contract that is renegotiated toward the end in this season. The potential to earn that contract is minimized by the year lost. It's tangible. You think teams will offer him > $28 million next year after 3-5 QBs go in the first round this year, and another 2-5 next year? A year changes things for everyone. A good agent finds the right trading partner and gets this deal done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Just now, Thaiphoon said: Right. This is what I'm saying. Remember, Kirk's tag is FULLY guaranteed. He eats up the entire 28m for 2018. This prevents us from signing pretty much anyone given that we need to sign our rookies and have cap room for guys to go on IR (like last year) Ya I'm just not buying it. Obviously I'd love for them to get anything for Cousins but I fail to see why any team would be motivated to trade for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 1 minute ago, footy_29 said: A good agent finds the right trading partner and gets this deal done. That agent told Cousins not to sign a LTD with the Redskins offseason and to sign the tag immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THESKINSFAN21 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 I don't mind Smith over Cousins. But,I do HATE losing Fuller!???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footy_29 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 7 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said: Right. This is what I'm saying. Remember, Kirk's tag is FULLY guaranteed. He eats up the entire 28m for 2018. This prevents us from signing pretty much anyone given that we need to sign our rookies and have cap room for guys to go on IR (like last year) So trade/release Colt McCoy and go with a rookie. Same goes for Jordan Reed. That's at least 8 million. You can get Bennie Logan long-term for less than that, or a couple of low-end starters. Stuck with the atrocious McClain contract. You don't make it easy for Cousins. Teams pay, even when fans think it's obvious that they shouldn't. I've only been a fan of the NFL for 15 years or so, and that is a never ending observation. Premium resources in high demand. Competition for a single high value product dictates peak price. This is actually excellent strategy by the Redskins FO. Assuming: 1) performance from Smith, 2) performance from Gruden, 3) success second year transition from Moreau or Hosley, 4) return for Cousins via trade. 5 minutes ago, MKnight82 said: That agent told Cousins not to sign a LTD with the Redskins offseason and to sign the tag immediately. Franchise tag =/= transition tag. Huge difference in two first round picks and a first rounder+. Big difference in Cousins value this year relative to last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 8 minutes ago, footy_29 said: So trade/release Colt McCoy and go with a rookie. Same goes for Jordan Reed. That's at least 8 million. You can get Bennie Logan long-term for less than that, or a couple of low-end starters. Stuck with the atrocious McClain contract. You don't make it easy for Cousins. Teams pay, even when fans think it's obvious that they shouldn't. I've only been a fan of the NFL for 15 years or so, and that is a never ending observation. Premium resources in high demand. Competition for a single high value product dictates peak price. This is actually excellent strategy by the Redskins FO. Assuming: 1) performance from Smith, 2) performance from Gruden, 3) success second year transition from Moreau or Hosley, 4) return for Cousins via trade. Franchise tag =/= transition tag. Huge difference in two first round picks and a first rounder+. Big difference in Cousins value this year relative to last year. But the inherent risk of Transition Tagging him isn't that Cousins will sign the tag, its that he'll just walk over to Denver and sign with them. We can't match it, he leaves we get nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 15 minutes ago, footy_29 said: Teams will also see him as a year older. Cousins can get two more contracts in his career if he gets a 6/7 year contract that is renegotiated toward the end in this season. The potential to earn that contract is minimized by the year lost. It's tangible. You think teams will offer him > $28 million next year after 3-5 QBs go in the first round this year, and another 2-5 next year? A year changes things for everyone. A good agent finds the right trading partner and gets this deal done. Or see that he had no hits. And is still a viable QB. And with Smith being more prone to injury than Kirk, its quite possible Kirks plays a few games this year. Then, he's pocketed 72m in guaranteed $$ over 3 years and hits FA at age 31. He doesn' need to go for the big contract. He just got a 3 year fully guaranteed contract! He can now focus on places that are good fits. As for who is drafted? So? Some will pan out. Others won't. There are always QB needy teams at the top of the draft who can make that need go away by signing Cousins and thus allowing them to use that pick on another position. Or a team like Pittsburgh if Ben decides to hang it up in 2019. Good place to land and he won' break the bank to find a home with as good team. He's already gotten paid. Now he can chase a ring. This is how I'm selling it to Bruce if I'm Kirk's agent. Meanwhile Bruce has to justify why the QB we just traded for...the one that needs B grade players or higher to succeed, isn't getting the job done because he has no $$ to lure FA or sign our own FA. And you've now wasted a year on the 5 year deal and have to start all over in year 2 trying to build a team around him. Bottom line. If Smith and Cousins are both on the roster, the Redskins can't build squat. Kirk knows this. Bruce knows this. And if I'm Kirk, I play chicken with Bruce again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 10 minutes ago, MKnight82 said: But the inherent risk of Transition Tagging him isn't that Cousins will sign the tag, its that he'll just walk over to Denver and sign with them. We can't match it, he leaves we get nothing. Correct. Not even compensatory in 2019. At least if untagged we get a 3rd in 2019 (which is now tradeable and can help us move up to get someone) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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