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onejayhawk

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2 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

Can you point to the Lawrence Taylor in this draft? Because there is none. There's not even a Myles Garrett or a Joey Bosa or a Jalen Ramsey in this draft. Bradley Chubb is overrated as is Minkah Fitzpatrick.

That's a good one.  Bradley Chubb is not overrated.  Comparing him to Fitzpatrick is a travesty.  Chubb has the production to match the hype.

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2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

But do you run the risk that your QB1 goes off the board at 2 or 3?  Let's say they like Josh Allen a TON, enough to consider him at #1.  They have Bradley Chubb as the highest ranked player by a slight margin.  Do you take Allen over Chubb?  Depends on whether or not you believe that Allen is your franchise QB and whether or not you believe the Giants or Colts will take him before the Browns have the option to.  The Giants at 3 seem poised to take a QB, so they're an option to steal Allen out from underneath them.  Indianapolis seems unlikely to take a QB, but they're a prime candidate to move down and pick up more picks in the possibility.  Denver at 5 and New York at 6 could both look to jump ahead of Cleveland at 4 and New York could want to jump Denver.  There's enough reason to believe that Josh Allen could go off the board before the Browns pick at 4.  You don't pass up on a franchise QB if he's your guys.  It's that simple.

Yep. Agree with Cwood...if you're taking a quarterback in this draft if you're cleveland (so we are assuming Cousins is off the table), then you're taking him number 1. It would be amazingly foolish to go elsewhere with pick #1 or trade down and risk losing your franchise quarterback (not to mention, drafting the third/fourth best quarterback in a class is an experiment that they have tried repeatedly without success) 

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I think they will take their QB at 1. Dorsey showed he will trade up for his guy, or trade for him. Traded for Alex, traded up for Mahomes. I can't see the one he covets sliding past 1. 

But an option not a lot of people are suggesting is that if Cleveland really loves 2 of them or knows who the Giants want, they could let the Giants trade up to 1 to grab their guy, and then take the other one at 2. Would probably get a 3rd and 2019 2nd to trade down one spot. Not that they need more picks, but having the extra 3rd allows them more ammo to move up the rest of the draft and still get their guy. 

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50 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

FIFY

Cheesy, but it underscores the problem. There is no consensus as to who the best QB is. 

 

1 hour ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

Dorance Armstrong, Arden Key, Duke Ejiofor, Tyquan Lewis, Josh Sweat, and Chad Thomas all and do this from the 2nd round and later as well as a veteran FA.

9_9 None of those is frontline. A rotation of three starting-grade DE is valuable. Slide one inside and you can get some serious pressure. 

Dorsey has a good record as a draftnik. The business side has been his downfall.

J

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12 minutes ago, onejayhawk said:

Cheesy, but it underscores the problem. There is no consensus as to who the best QB is.

Except you're "polling" a bunch of people if they were the final decision maker.  There's only one final decision maker in Cleveland.

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1 hour ago, CWood21 said:
1 hour ago, EliteTexan80 said:

Don't overthink things. Rosen at #1.

FIFY

I actually like Rosen more, but I'm also thinking of which guy is going to revamp that locker room culture. I personally like his attitude, but could see that also backfire in a room that needs a steady presence. I can see Rosen really fanning a fire of discontent if things go south early on, and that devouring this franchise entirely.

Honestly? If we're drafting on the basis of "who is going to fix the culture" then I'm going Baker Mayfield. He's got a chip on his shoulder as a former walk on, turned transfer, turned phenom - and he'd be the type of guy that Browns players would rally around, to hell and back. He wouldn't "embrace the suck" as other franchise players have in Cleveland, and demand others follow his lead.

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3 hours ago, CWood21 said:

That's a good one.  Bradley Chubb is not overrated.  Comparing him to Fitzpatrick is a travesty.  Chubb has the production to match the hype.

He was a productive college player. He won with toughness, technique, and effort. But he's not going to bend the edge against premier NFL OT's. He's going to be a solid starter, not a game changer like Bosa or Garrett.

How did I compare him to Fitzpatrick? I just said both were overrated. In stronger drafts, these dudes aren't going in the top ten. I'd bet my house that they're not busts, but these aren't game changing talents in my eyes. That's what a top 5 pick is for...game changers, not good.

I want to see what Chubb does at the combine to see if he can change my tune about his athleticism, but I expect his stock to take a dip after Indy.

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@onejayhawk also, can you imagine the #$@!storm that would happen in Cleveland if we passed on ANOTHER franchise QB? If we go Barkley at 1 and then Rosen/Darnold/Allen/Mayfield/whoever goes to the Giants or (Colts trade partner) and tears it up.......people will be murdered in the streets. I don't have the rigid ideology that you need to take a QB #1 if you have a need there. I was all for Garrett last year because he was a transcendent talent...and I actually loved Trubisky. This QB class is significantly better, our need for a QB is significantly higher, and we just fired our GM because he decided to pass on stud QB's instead of just taking them. There is a 0% chance something other than QB happens at pick #1.

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Here's my thoughts on the QB's:

 

Sam Darnold: Great skill set. Big, strong, fast, tall, great arm, great accuracy. Played in a pro style offense. Was productive despite losing a ton of his talent from the previous year. He manipulates the pocket so well and can make every throw even without a great platform for delivery. He scans the entire field and understands how to throw the football into spots where only the WR can get it. He does have a glaring weakness, and it's pocket presence. He is seemingly oblivious to pressure and has turned the ball over on strip sacks a comical amount of times. This needs to get solved, but other than that, he has a great outlook as a franchise QB.

 

Josh Rosen: Most polished passer. Elite footwork in the pocket. Flawless delivery. Good size and good enough athleticism. Makes full-field reads and is accurate at all levels...particularly underneath. Gives his WR's a chance to run with the ball after the catch by putting it right on their hands in stride. He has a + arm, but it's not quite as strong as the other top 3 QB's in the class. It's certainly strong enough to make every throw though. Apparently he has some baggage off the field, but we don't get to interview him about it so I can't really judge his character. I don't care if he likes other things besides football as long as he gets the job done on Sundays.

 

Baker Mayfield: Arguably a higher ceiling than Rosen or Darnold because of his spectacular play ability. The dude is so good at manipulating the rush, throwing on the run, and play action. Scary good in those regards. Great athlete at the position. Makes throws in tight windows both in coverage and through his OL. Elite zip on his passes. He has good size and strength, but certainly suffers in the height department. He is accurate at every level of the field. He is insanely competitive. His teammates and coaches love him. Oh, and he has a rocket launcher for an arm. Concerns are his height and his collegiate scheme that is pure spread. I think he has as much upside, if not more, than anyone in the class.

 

Josh Allen: Insanely high ceiling. Makes the most spectacular wtf throws I've ever seen. But he's also got a catastrophically low floor. I love that he played in a pro style and I love his personality. He really has every tool other than accuracy. Accuracy has been a big problem for him and as much as young me used to believe this was a trait you could easily solve, I'm beginning to realize that very rarely do inaccurate guys fix those problems once they reach the college level. Decision making can improve, but accuracy? Not so much. He's a scary proposition, especially if we're taking a QB at #1.

 

 

Overall, I think my wish list for Cleveland is as such:

 

#1--Sam Darnold (Best blend of upside and safety)

#2--Josh Rosen (Mechanically elite)

#3--Baker Mayfield (A little risky, but Russell Wilson type skill set)

#4--Josh Allen (Too risky, but the upside is cray cray)

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2 hours ago, cattleman78 said:

Who would you take?

 

I honestly thought that the Browns would acquire Alex Smith, and then maybe draft a quarterback in the late 1st or early second-round. They could still acquire Kirk Cousins, but I don't think that will happen.

That being said, I think the Browns best course of action is to get a veteran quarterback like Sam Bradford or Tyrod Taylor, draft Josh Rosen at 1 and draft Barkley at 4. Or... trade down from the first overall spot, still take Barkley at 4, and then draft Mayfield or Jackson. Stay far away from Josh Allen. And I'm not saying that as a Steeler fan not wanting the Browns to get him, I'm saying that as an objective fan who doesn't think much of Allen.

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5 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

@onejayhawk also, can you imagine the #$@!storm that would happen in Cleveland if we passed on ANOTHER franchise QB? If we go Barkley at 1 and then Rosen/Darnold/Allen/Mayfield/whoever goes to the Giants or (Colts trade partner) and tears it up.......people will be murdered in the streets. I don't have the rigid ideology that you need to take a QB #1 if you have a need there. I was all for Garrett last year because he was a transcendent talent...and I actually loved Trubisky. This QB class is significantly better, our need for a QB is significantly higher, and we just fired our GM because he decided to pass on stud QB's instead of just taking them. There is a 0% chance something other than QB happens at pick #1.

If they did it twice, yes. With just the first pick, not so much. In any event, it would be smart to appear to consider other players as the first pick.

J

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We really do not know what they'll do until post combine.

 

If they feel 2 out of the 4 QBs are better than the other 2, they'll grab QB with first overall and grab Barkley or Chubb at #4... Both great future all pro's. 

 

I see them grabbing darnold after interviews are over. Giants get Barkley and go with Webb as the future with Eli given the ball for his last two years. If Eli sucks and so does Webb, they'll have a top five pick again in 2019 to take a QB to build. 

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