Sam Darnold

[Aztec Hammer]

My dream draft is probably impossible but it somehow involves Sam Darnold, Saquon Barkley and Quenton Nelson.

Darnold at 1.

Barkley at 4.

Nelson in a trade up if he falls into the teens and it becomes plausible.

I'm sure most will be disgusted by the idea of trading up for a Guard at any time, let alone when we have two very good ones in Bitonio and Zeitler. But Quenton Nelson is incredible. Perfect prospect in my opinion.

He is a one-man running game and just supremely dominant in every aspect of the game.

Those three on our offense would be amazing.

Can Bitonio play LT?

[bruceb]

7 hours ago, Aztec Hammer said:

Can Bitonio play LT?

Pretty sure he did in college.

[dawgpound1816]

8 hours ago, Aztec Hammer said:

Can Bitonio play LT?

Yes bruceb is right, he played LT at Nevada...I remember watching his combine drills and he had to be one of the best hip flip and footwork OL I've personally ever seen. I'm not talking 40x, I'm talking kick step drills, strafe drills and pull drills. He looked like Cooper Kupp running on a rope in the gauntlet. He can play in space and in an elevator. His downfall coming out was 2 things. Shorter arms that suits him better in an elevator and he was grabby which is easier to hide inside. For sure he's athletic enough. 

I too like Nelson, and wouldn't be opposed if Bitonio would need to move outside. Especially if Nelson is on par with Zack Martin. He would be BPA that's for sure. Struggles for life after JT could be eased with this pick maybe???

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

Only Cleveland fans can rationalize taking a G at 4 when we already have the two highest paid G’s in the league.

[bruceb]

13 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Only Cleveland fans can rationalize taking a G at 4 when we already have the two highest paid G’s in the league.

Not rationalization if he is BPA when picked.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

23 minutes ago, bruceb said:

Not rationalization if he is BPA when picked.

It’s not purely BPA, it’s BPA at a position of relative need.

The Rams aren’t drafting a 3T if that’s the highest rated player on their board. If Luck is healthy, the Colts aren’t drafting a QB if...

You get point.

[Aztec Hammer]

16 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

It’s not purely BPA, it’s BPA at a position of relative need.

The Rams aren’t drafting a 3T if that’s the highest rated player on their board. If Luck is healthy, the Colts aren’t drafting a QB if...

You get point.

I get that to some extent, but I think a lot of the time, teams focus too much on what they think they already have at the position, and look elsewhere.

Then you give it a year or two, the player they already had at the position that made them comfortable passing isn't all that anymore, and what they're left with is a lesser player they took in the draft, whilst they have to watch the better player that they passed on dominate for another team.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

11 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said:

I get that to some extent, but I think a lot of the time, teams focus too much on what they think they already have at the position, and look elsewhere.

Then you give it a year or two, the player they already had at the position that made them comfortable passing isn't all that anymore, and what they're left with is a lesser player they took in the draft, whilst they have to watch the better player that they passed on dominate for another team.

That’s fair, but to draft a guard when you have the two highest paid guys in the league, both under 30, is just a tremendous waste of resources to me.

[bruceb]

38 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

It’s not purely BPA, it’s BPA at a position of relative need.

The Rams aren’t drafting a 3T if that’s the highest rated player on their board. If Luck is healthy, the Colts aren’t drafting a QB if...

You get point.

I get the point, and if the decision(s) were as extreme as those you present, your point makes sense.

 

[bruceb]

8 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

That’s fair, but to draft a guard when you have the two highest paid guys in the league, both under 30, is just a tremendous waste of resources to me.

Dunno.

The game is won or lost in the trenches.

We are close to having a very talented and deep DL.

Would be nice and, imho, and not a tremendous waste of resources to have a very talented and deep OL, too.

That would be a nice way forward for whoever we get at QB, RB or WR.

[NateDawg]

My blood pressure is going up just reading the agreement with this philosophy by fellow fans. 

Can Bitinio play OT? Sure. So, we move one of the top guards in the league to a position that he’s likely to be pretty good at, so that we can draft an offensive guard? 

I get that Nelson is good, but if OL is really that much of a need, this is why we have 6 picks in the top 65. An offensive guard at 4 would be so Brownsie and really not funny at this point.

[MWil23]

11 hours ago, bruceb said:

Dunno.

I love you buddy, we agree on a lot here, but this is not one of them. We have two of the best OGs in football, have the most money allocated to them, and they're rock solid. Of all the positions on this roster, that's clearly our strength.

11 hours ago, bruceb said:

The game is won or lost in the trenches.

It is definitely to a point, but this is also overblown when you have practice squad caliber skill position players on both sides of the ball, and have had them for a decade. We have one of the best LT in the history of the NFL on our roster, and it's amounted to BARELY ANY WINS over a 10 year period of time...that's how bad our skill players are. We've addressed the OL high in the 1st/2nd and free agency during that time, with guys like:

JT

Bitonio

Tretter

Mack

Schwartz

Zeitler

Steinbech

Erving

...even Jeff Faine a little over a decade ago. How many more times do we really need to go down this path before we realize that we need PLAYMAKERS, aside from the obvious QB, I'll grant you.

11 hours ago, bruceb said:

We are close to having a very talented and deep DL.

Would be nice and, imho, and not a tremendous waste of resources to have a very talented and deep OL, too.

We already DO have a very talented OL with capable depth in Drango and one or two others. We can always add a free agent or use one of our 3 2nd rounders (maybe even 2 to be honest) to acquire a very solid starter or depth guy. It doesn't have to be the 4th overall pick in the entire draft.

11 hours ago, bruceb said:

That would be a nice way forward for whoever we get at QB, RB or WR.

Ah yes, 2nd and 3rd round receivers have worked out REALLY well for us (aside from Gordon, who is talented, but a hot mess)

*Quincy Morgan

*Mohammed Massaquoi

*Robiskie

*Andre Davis

The list goes on. I'm great drafting them in the 2nd/3rd because it's all about value, but we've willfully gone out of our way to do this for a decade now, and it's tiresome.

[Aztec Hammer]

Braylon Edwards 3rd overall

Kellen Winslow 6th overall

Trent Richardson 3rd overall

Justin Gilbert 8th overall

There are many worse things that can happen than drafting an OL that some regard as the best lineman so far this century, even if we already have good ones. The alternative, as seen above, can be brutal. Those were 'playmaking positions'.

But for what it's worth I agree. I didn't realise our Guards were as young as they are. And even without them, I'm not sure a team like these Browns can afford to take an OG that high. My original feelings regarding Nelson were never that we should take him at 4. It's too rich. But should he fall into the teens, I'd really try to look for a way to get it done without going overboard.

In this draft as well, we have a prime RB prospect that could be there for us at 4.

My issue is at which point are we just relegating positional importance for the sake of it? Obviously certain positions influence the game more than others but it gets a bit extreme at times.

OG I understand, particularly that high up and when we already have two good ones. But I've read RB isn't worth it there because you can find one later like Hunt and Kamara. Where does it stop?

LBs? Sean Lee, Jamie Collins, Lavonne David, Bobby Wagner, KN Wright etc all drafted later.

DB? Richard Sherman, Kam Chancellor, Josh Norman, Chris Harris, AJ Bouye, Brent Grimes etc all drafted later.

You can make every position sound unimportant in draft terms, even QB, if you really wanted to.

I think we just need to take the best player available, short of him being a special teamer or a really extenuating case like having two pro-bowl talented Guards already.

[MWil23]

17 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said:

Braylon Edwards 3rd overall

In one of the worst drafts of all time. Plus, at least he made a Pro Bowl.

17 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said:

Kellen Winslow 6th overall

Pro Bowl TE. Trading a 2nd to move up to get him was the bad part.

17 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said:

Trent Richardson 3rd overall

Who we flipped for a first. Funny how people forget that around here.

17 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said:

Justin Gilbert 8th overall

Terrible pick, I said so at the time.

17 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said:

There are many worse things that can happen than drafting an OL that some regard as the best lineman so far this century, even if we already have good ones. The alternative, as seen above, can be brutal. Those were 'playmaking positions'.

You make it seem like every single 1st round lineman is a sure thing. I'll raise you a Cameron Erving or a Jeff Faine.

The problem isn't always drafting a lineman over a position player, it's a matter of value PLUS drafting the right ones. If we drafted OBJ instead of Gilbert or KWII isn't in a catastrophic motorcycle accident (totally unpredictable), then things are vastly different. Throw in an Aaron Rodgers (who I wanted at the time) instead of a Braylon Dropwards, and you have lightning in a bottle.

17 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said:

But for what it's worth I agree. I didn't realise our Guards were as young as they are. And even without them, I'm not sure a team like these Browns can afford to take an OG that high. My original feelings regarding Nelson were never that we should take him at 4. It's too rich. But should he fall into the teens, I'd really try to look for a way to get it done without going overboard.

Yeah, pretty much this. Plus, for all we know, he could be the next Warmack. Everyone thought he was Nelson a few years ago. The Browns are last in the league in pretty much every Red Zone metric going back 5 years. They need WR and RBs, not to mention the obvious franchise QB.

17 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said:

In this draft as well, we have a prime RB prospect that could be there for us at 4.

My issue is at which point are we just relegating positional importance for the sake of it? Obviously certain positions influence the game more than others but it gets a bit extreme at times.

If we drafted Barkley at 4 and he's the next Gurley/Elliott, I'll be thrilled. I'm adamantly against drafting an OL or DE at #4, not only because we have more glaring needs, but they are POSITIONS OF STRENGTH on an 0-16 roster. We are in absolutely no position to add a strength to an existing strength.  For people that want a rushman package, then load up on a pass rushing specialist in rounds 2 and 3, not at #4 overall when we have bookend DEs who are both under 25, and we don't draft OG in the top 5 period, but especially when we have 2 under 30 who we're paying what we're paying and producing at a very high level.

17 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said:

OG I understand, particularly that high up and when we already have two good ones. But I've read RB isn't worth it there because you can find one later like Hunt and Kamara. Where does it stop?

See above. I want playmakers at the RB and WR positions, and even a 2nd TE (2nd/3rd round). If that means drafting them at #4, do it. Even those against taking a RB that high will come around if he's a perennial Pro Bowler.

17 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said:

LBs? Sean Lee, Jamie Collins, Lavonne David, Bobby Wagner, KN Wright etc all drafted later.

Why do we want a LB? We have Collins, Kirksey, and Pro Bowl alternate Schobert. Do we really want/need one high? Find someone late to replace Tank Carder.

17 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said:

DB? Richard Sherman, Kam Chancellor, Josh Norman, Chris Harris, AJ Bouye, Brent Grimes etc all drafted later.

I don't think anyone is advocating drafting one late. We should draft them higher and/or sign a free agent or two. I think you're using bit reduction to absurdism here.

17 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said:

You can make every position sound unimportant in draft terms, even QB, if you really wanted to.

Speaking of absurd exaggerations.

17 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said:

I think we just need to take the best player available, short of him being a special teamer or a really extenuating case like having two pro-bowl talented Guards already.

Yeah, we agree for the most part here. If we take an OL/DL high I'm going to freak out. We need dudes that score points. QB, RB, WR...or secondary. PERIOD. Anything else can be/should be addressed later and/or in free agency. We aren't in a position to take depth guys or guys to help us out in 2-4 years.

[Aztec Hammer]

Darnold and Barkley for me.

That's our best shot for scoring a lot of points over the next decade!