base615 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 6 minutes ago, mse326 said: No you haven't. You have not once compared Urlacher to Gradishar and answered why 1 is first ballot and one isn't even in yet. Especially since a main part of Blaq's argument was about being a media darling, even if you think Gradishar should be in and should be first ballot that doesn't negate his point. I literally said I think Gradishar should have also been in and has been snubbed but, again, I wasn’t even arguing with him on that point. I was purely arguing that Urlacher should be in first ballot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mse326 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 1 minute ago, base615 said: I literally said I think Gradishar should have also been in and has been snubbed but, again, I wasn’t even arguing with him on that point. I was purely arguing that Urlacher should be in first ballot. 1. So you agree with his media darling part as the reason Urlacher is in and Gradishar isn't? 2. All you've done is post media given awards and say he is close to Ray Lewis. That isn't much of an argument given the answer to number 1 and the sheer wrongness of the 2nd part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
base615 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 8 minutes ago, mse326 said: 1. So you agree with his media darling part as the reason Urlacher is in and Gradishar isn't? 2. All you've done is post media given awards and say he is close to Ray Lewis. That isn't much of an argument given the answer to number 1 and the sheer wrongness of the 2nd part. No, I don’t agree but I’m going to lunch and you’re very boring so good day to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Issue Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 1 hour ago, BlaqOptic said: 100%. Media darling getting a media darling push if ever there was one. He’s going in in the same class as players who are literally some of the greatest ever at their positions and he sticks out like a sore thumb. Amazing he gets in because of how beloved he was by the media but Grandashir STILL waits. No idea how a guy voted most overrated in the league by his peers THREE times is a first ballot HoFer. I am looking at the rest of the finalists and, based simply on the bolded, wouldn't anyone else have stuck out like a "sore thumb?" I mean, there are plenty of great names, but I honestly think they all fall short of TO/Moss/Lewis levels at their positions. Then you have to think that the selection committee has been pressured for years to get more defensive players in. So... who? Out of all the semi finalists on defense, who was on the TO/Moss/Lewis level at his position? I mean, I am with you. I would rather Gradishar get in now and see Urlacher wait. Gradishar. Atwater. Bobby Boyd. On and on. But Gradishar and those other guys didnt make the seniors list. Brazile did. And I am pretty happy about that. That is one wrong that has been righted. We will see more in the future. Being a media darling does play into getting into Canton. It always has. You may as well just learn to accept that. It's 2018. This isnt your first trip to the rodeo. And Canton could do a lot worse than Brain Urlacher. He couldnt carry Ray Lewis's cleats. But he was still a fantastic linebacker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showtime Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 1 hour ago, NVRamsFan said: Another year with the criminally underrated Ike Bruce not getting in. Bruce deserves to be in, but certainly not before Owens or Moss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showtime Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Brian Urlacher was the consensus second best LB in football behind Ray Lewis for many years. Lewis is the greatest MLB ever. That's like saying Troy Polamalu shouldn't go into the hall the same year as Ed Reed (Reed was the better player of the two, imo). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Issue Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 17 minutes ago, mse326 said: 1. So you agree with his media darling part as the reason Urlacher is in and Gradishar isn't? 2. All you've done is post media given awards and say he is close to Ray Lewis. That isn't much of an argument given the answer to number 1 and the sheer wrongness of the 2nd part. I think Urlacher is in, in part, because he was a media darling. But that shouldnt overshadow the fact that he does deserve to be enshrined. Just as Randy Gradishar does. If you want to know, specifically, why Urlacher is in and Gradishar isn't, the answer is simple: Gradishar became eligible in a time when the selection committee couldnt give a fig about defensive players. So he, unfairly, got lost in the shuffle. Like many other great defensive players around his time. Urlacher became eligible in a time where the selection committee is making a concerted effort to get more defensive players in. But I am still struggling to understand how Brian Urlacher has anything to do with Randy Gradishar or any of those other players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Issue Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Just now, showtime said: Brian Urlacher was the consensus second best LB in football behind Ray Lewis for many years. Lewis is the greatest MLB ever. That's like saying Troy Polamalu shouldn't go into the hall the same year as Ed Reed (Reed was the better player of the two, imo). Thats a great analogy. Even though I liked Troy more. But we wont open up that can of worms, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 This is one of the strongest Hall of Fame classes I've seen in a LONG time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 6 minutes ago, showtime said: Brian Urlacher was the consensus second best LB in football behind Ray Lewis for many years. Lewis is the greatest MLB ever. That's like saying Troy Polamalu shouldn't go into the hall the same year as Ed Reed (Reed was the better player of the two, imo). Different Players. Ed Reed, Polamalu, and Dawkins were all top 5 safeties ever if you ask me and played at the same time. No one playing today holds a candle to any of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mse326 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 5 minutes ago, showtime said: Brian Urlacher was the consensus second best LB in football behind Ray Lewis for many years. Lewis is the greatest MLB ever. That's like saying Troy Polamalu shouldn't go into the hall the same year as Ed Reed (Reed was the better player of the two, imo). Troy and Reed are on the same level at least. You may think Reed is better, but there are others that think Polamalu and they are close enough that both are right. With that said it is pretty common to not put two people in from the same position unless on the same level especially if contemporaries. And your still missing the part of the argument where Blaq, and I agree, don't think he is a first ballot caliber linebacker given precedent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mse326 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 7 minutes ago, Non-Issue said: But I am struggling to understand how Brian Urlacher has anything to do with Randy Gradishar or any of those other players. It's arguing precedent. Why with two comparable players is 1 first ballot and 1 not in after 20 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 2 hours ago, PapaShogun said: I think I'm going to watch the event this August. I usually don't. Seriously so much great talent and interesting people. Two of the best motivational people in Dawkins and Lewis as well as Owens and Moss who were THE WR divas. In my opinion all four of them are Top 3 all time at their respective positions. Urlacher is a cool dude as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showtime Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 To me, if you're playing in a sport at the same time as the greatest player ever at the position, it shouldn't matter if you get into the HoF with that player. Tom Brady is EASILY the consensus better QB than Drew Brees by nearly everyone. But if they both retire the same season, they should go into the HoF together on the first ballot. People use arguments like that all the time. Player X was never even the best player at his position.... Well yea, if the greatest player ever at that position is in the league at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 1 hour ago, NVRamsFan said: Another year with the criminally underrated Ike Bruce not getting in. You had to get TO and Moss out of the way before you even CONSIDER Isaac Bruce. Hell Holt belongs in before Isaac Bruce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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