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This Is Rival Talk v1.0


CWood21

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53 minutes ago, pollino14 said:

How so? Idt anyone is ranking him as a top 3-5 guy, but if you rank him 6-10 I wouldn’t think anything of it. 

I swear I got into this debate last year. Maybe with @skibrett15?

I recall Stafford finishing around the 14th-25th best QB pretty much every year of his career. Had maybe one top 10 season.

Guy doesn't sniff the top 10. He's consistently a very ok QB. You know you *might* get a 'good' year from him if the stars align. You also k ow you will never get a great or elite year needed to take you to the next level.

I love having him in the division. 

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2 hours ago, incognito_man said:

I swear I got into this debate last year. Maybe with @skibrett15?

I recall Stafford finishing around the 14th-25th best QB pretty much every year of his career. Had maybe one top 10 season.

Guy doesn't sniff the top 10. He's consistently a very ok QB. You know you *might* get a 'good' year from him if the stars align. You also k ow you will never get a great or elite year needed to take you to the next level.

I love having him in the division. 

Over the past four years he’s averaging almost 27 passing tds, 11 INTs , and a 7.4 YPA with no running game, porous offensive line and average a defense at best. That doesn’t sniff top10??? Wow. 

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1 minute ago, pollino14 said:

Over the past four years he’s averaging almost 27 passing tds, 11 INTs , and a 7.4 YPA with no running game, porous offensive line and average a defense at best. That doesn’t sniff top10??? Wow. 

Rodgers, Brady, Big Ben, Rivers, Wilson, Brees, Ryan, Newton, Wentz, Luck are easily better or have been their whole careers in cases of the old declining guys.

He's lumped in with Goff (ascending), Mahomes (ascending), Alex Smith, Jimmy G. So somewhere from 11-15. 

Good enough to get you a wild card on his own, and that's about it.

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7 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Rodgers, Brady, Big Ben, Rivers, Wilson, Brees, Ryan, Newton, Wentz, Luck are easily better or have been their whole careers in cases of the old declining guys.

He's lumped in with Goff (ascending), Mahomes (ascending), Alex Smith, Jimmy G. So somewhere from 11-15. 

Good enough to get you a wild card on his own, and that's about it.

I personally think Ben has been the most overrated qb in years, he just benefits from having the best supporting cast you can ask for.

Hes better than Cam

Easily better than Ryan

Not going to say Wentz is better than him after 1 year

Old Luck, sure. New Andrew Luck, we’ll see.

Goff, no

Alex Smith, big fan but Stafford is better.

Jimmy G, after 8 or so starts??? Cmon.

I just don’t know how you can say he’s good enough for a WC game when  until last night they haven’t had a 100 yard rusher since 2013 and defense generally finishes in the bottom half of the league. Outside of a couple of good, not great WRs Stafford has very little help around him.

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16 minutes ago, pollino14 said:

I personally think Ben has been the most overrated qb in years, he just benefits from having the best supporting cast you can ask for.

Hes better than Cam

Easily better than Ryan

Not going to say Wentz is better than him after 1 year

Old Luck, sure. New Andrew Luck, we’ll see.

Goff, no

Alex Smith, big fan but Stafford is better.

Jimmy G, after 8 or so starts??? Cmon.

I just don’t know how you can say he’s good enough for a WC game when  until last night they haven’t had a 100 yard rusher since 2013 and defense generally finishes in the bottom half of the league. Outside of a couple of good, not great WRs Stafford has very little help around him.

He has no help and doesn't win because they paid him like a top flight QB and he can't elevate a team like a top flight QB does. The evidence is all right there.

You are literally describing QB purgatory without knowing it. He makes too much money for them to supply him with adequate help, and they draft too high to have shots at elite talent, yet he isn't good enough like an elite QB to carry them passed all that.

It's why the Lions have been exactly the same team since paying him.

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7 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

He has no help and doesn't win because they paid him like a top flight QB and he can't elevate a team like a top flight QB does. The evidence is all right there.

You are literally describing QB purgatory without knowing it. He makes too much money for them to supply him with adequate help, and they draft too high to have shots at elite talent, yet he isn't good enough like an elite QB to carry them passed all that.

It's why the Lions have been exactly the same team since paying him.

Oh come on! This is ridiculous. You’re saying he has no help! How’s he supposed to win?! What has a guy like Rivers done recently? What’s the difference.

I’m not going to discuss the obvious how it’s completely ridiculous calling guys with a year or less starting experience better than Stafford but how are Matt Ryan and Cam Newton better? Recently they’ve been real average outside of two outlier years.

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Are you really saying Stafford is better than Cam Newton? ?

Stafford is maaayyyybe more consistent, but overall Cam >>>> Stafford. Let's be real.

Also, I'm perhaps the biggest Matt Ryan critic on this site but he is also inarguably better than Matthew flipping Stafford...

You just gotta be trolling me at this point.

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9 minutes ago, pollino14 said:

Oh come on! This is ridiculous. You’re saying he has no help! How’s he supposed to win?! What has a guy like Rivers done recently? What’s the difference.

I’m not going to discuss the obvious how it’s completely ridiculous calling guys with a year or less starting experience better than Stafford but how are Matt Ryan and Cam Newton better? Recently they’ve been real average outside of two outlier years.

They call it purgatory, we call it a bad organization.  There's no such thing as QB purgatory unless you've given a bad QB a huge contract.  There's a slight advantage from having a rookie deal QB and that cap flexibility, but to say that's the only way to win in the NFL is just a recency bias of The Eagles winning the SB.  The Falcons and Pats went to the SB the YEAR BEFORE with top 10ish QBs on highly paid contracts.

Stafford is firmly above Luck and comparing him to Alex Smith is laughable.  He's better than Alex Smith in every conceivable way and puts those results on the field. Except if you want to run the triple option as the foundation of your offense, I guess?

He's way better than Jimmy G and better than Matty Ice.  Now that he has a league average coaching staff with Cooter, and a few offensive lineman and a running back... this can easily be a top 5 offense in the NFL.

 

Minnesota had a good team and THEN went out and paid a QB top money.  Is there something cap magical to that order of operations?  Or maybe the Lions could try to do that while starting with the QB contract in hand?  Maybe?

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6 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

Are you really saying Stafford is better than Cam Newton? ?

Stafford is maaayyyybe more consistent, but overall Cam >>>> Stafford. Let's be real.

Also, I'm perhaps the biggest Matt Ryan critic on this site but he is also inarguably better than Matthew flipping Stafford...

You just gotta be trolling me at this point.

That’s enough for me here. There’s very little intelligent conversations here. People not knowing what an outlier season is, or saying someone with about 10 starts is better than a close to a 10 year vet, it’s ridiculous. 

the page is full of over reactions, generalizations and arguments with little to no substance.

There’s a reason why almost all of the quality posters have left this place. 

 

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57 minutes ago, skibrett15 said:

They call it purgatory, we call it a bad organization.  There's no such thing as QB purgatory unless you've given a bad QB a huge contract.  There's a slight advantage from having a rookie deal QB and that cap flexibility, but to say that's the only way to win in the NFL is just a recency bias of The Eagles winning the SB.  The Falcons and Pats went to the SB the YEAR BEFORE with top 10ish QBs on highly paid contracts.

Stafford is firmly above Luck and comparing him to Alex Smith is laughable.  He's better than Alex Smith in every conceivable way and puts those results on the field. Except if you want to run the triple option as the foundation of your offense, I guess?

He's way better than Jimmy G and better than Matty Ice.  Now that he has a league average coaching staff with Cooter, and a few offensive lineman and a running back... this can easily be a top 5 offense in the NFL.

 

Minnesota had a good team and THEN went out and paid a QB top money.  Is there something cap magical to that order of operations?  Or maybe the Lions could try to do that while starting with the QB contract in hand?  Maybe?

Ok then where are the wins? Matt Ryan wins. Jimmy G took over a crap San Fran team and had them at 7-1 in his starts before his unfortunate injury. Cam Newton took CAR to the SB. Where are Stafford's wins if he's some great QB?

They said Stafford needed an OL, they went and got Wagner and Lang, he's got probably the best trio of WRs in the division, I'd say MN and us have the best duo but Golladay is leagues better than GMo or Treadwell. They have Quinn, Slay, Ansah, Davis their D is middle of the pack. Certainly better than some of the defenses Rodgers has carried. Yet the guy doesn't win.

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Just now, Packerraymond said:

Ok then where are the wins? Matt Ryan wins. Jimmy G took over a crap San Fran team and had them at 7-1 in his starts before his unfortunate injury. Cam Newton took CAR to the SB. Where are Stafford's wins if he's some great QB?

They said Stafford needed an OL, they went and got Wagner and Lang, he's got probably the best trio of WRs in the division, I'd say MN and us have the best duo but Golladay is leagues better than GMo or Treadwell. They have Quinn, Slay, Ansah, Davis their D is middle of the pack. Certainly better than some of the defenses Rodgers has carried. Yet the guy doesn't win.

QB wins... LMAO

Matt Ryan Wins.....  Jimmy G Wins... well, except for the 2 losses this year, but yeah clear obvious winner at 6-2 over his SF career.  Great QB with 8 INTs in 8 starts. 

Matt Ryan has fewer regular season wins than Stafford since 2014.  Stafford has 20 Game winning drives, and 16 4th quarter comebacks since 2014.  Matty Ice has 12/10 respectively over that period.

 

The short answer to your question is that one team has had good-great coaching to go with good-great QB play, and another team has had Jim Caldwell.  Show me a playoff team with wins and I'll show you a good coach and a good team... which is something Stafford has never enjoyed.

 

Matt Ryan has consistently enjoyed either the best running game in the NFL with Michael Turner or Devonta/Coleman lately, AND the best passing game coordinator (Shanahan) AND the best receiver in the NFL.  All of Matt Ryan's playoff wins except the one where he beat Seattle featured a very good Defense from Atlanta.

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1 hour ago, pollino14 said:

That’s enough for me here. There’s very little intelligent conversations here. People not knowing what an outlier season is, or saying someone with about 10 starts is better than a close to a 10 year vet, it’s ridiculous. 

the page is full of over reactions, generalizations and arguments with little to no substance.

There’s a reason why almost all of the quality posters have left this place. 

 

Gtfo.

I've spent way more time examining Stafford's career than you have. You've contributed absolutely nothing of measurable importance to this topic and have the brainless, misplaced confidence to call those who disagree with you out on a "lack of intelligence" ?

Christ Almighty. 

Yeah, let's have an opinion, back it up with literally nothing, then bow out and saw "I'm out, the opposition isn't intelligent"

Your stance and handling of this argument flat out sucks.

@skibrett15 brought some good points to the table during the last go-around in this topic, so it's possible. It's not convincing (to me), but geez man, take 15 min to look at at least one fact or two before self-confirming your misplaced superiority. 

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