malibuspeedrace Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 3 hours ago, DawgX said: And this is another reason I'm not that excited about this season. We have a window to compete while we have our guys under contract and have a great rotation, yet what moves did we make this offseason to get better? I don't think we got any worse this offseason, but we didn't make any moves that make me feel confident that we can compete with Boston, New York and Houston. I feel we got significantly worse this offseason We lost Brantley, Allen & Miller and didn't come close to replacing their provided output. We also lost our 4th OF in Chis, and our (2) utility IFs in EGon & Yandy. We also replaced the Encarnacion / Yonder platoon with only Carlos Santana & Jake Bauers..both of whom seem to be better fits at DH...so we will have a DH playing 1B. We are now staring down having to see Roberto Perez as the staring catcher, rather than only being Bauer's personal catcher....I don't know how serious Plawecki will be able to fight him to be starting catcher. I honestly haven't heard a thing about either from Spring Training I honestly don't know how anyone could say we didn't get worse. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgX Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 45 minutes ago, malibuspeedrace said: I feel we got significantly worse this offseason We lost Brantley, Allen & Miller and didn't come close to replacing their provided output. We also lost our 4th OF in Chis, and our (2) utility IFs in EGon & Yandy. We also replaced the Encarnacion / Yonder platoon with only Carlos Santana & Jake Bauers..both of whom seem to be better fits at DH...so we will have a DH playing 1B. We are now staring down having to see Roberto Perez as the staring catcher, rather than only being Bauer's personal catcher....I don't know how serious Plawecki will be able to fight him to be starting catcher. I honestly haven't heard a thing about either from Spring Training I honestly don't know how anyone could say we didn't get worse. True about Brantley. Wasn't thinking about him. And I'm not sure how much of a loss Allen is, but we'll see. And yeah, having Perez as our starter makes trading away Mejia a harder pill to swallow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 I don’t ever want to hear anyone bang against our attendance ever again after that blurb straight from Paul Dolan’s mouth...at least not as long as they own the team. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckeyesNut0623 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 17 hours ago, DawgX said: True about Brantley. Wasn't thinking about him. And I'm not sure how much of a loss Allen is, but we'll see. And yeah, having Perez as our starter makes trading away Mejia a harder pill to swallow. Perez was a lot better then almost everyone gives him credit for. He was a lights out closer imo and I think was a good as Miller if not better a lot of the time. I agree about Mejida and it sucks if they new that they were getting of the starting C and just said screw it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjohnson2009 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 19 hours ago, malibuspeedrace said: I feel we got significantly worse this offseason We lost Brantley, Allen & Miller and didn't come close to replacing their provided output. We also lost our 4th OF in Chis, and our (2) utility IFs in EGon & Yandy. We also replaced the Encarnacion / Yonder platoon with only Carlos Santana & Jake Bauers..both of whom seem to be better fits at DH...so we will have a DH playing 1B. We are now staring down having to see Roberto Perez as the staring catcher, rather than only being Bauer's personal catcher....I don't know how serious Plawecki will be able to fight him to be starting catcher. I honestly haven't heard a thing about either from Spring Training I honestly don't know how anyone could say we didn't get worse. If we ranked those 4 1B defensively, Eddie and Yonder would be last. Plawecki is a good hitter for a catcher, bad receiver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 If anything we got worse, but it will be just enough in our terrible division. I don’t understand why we weren’t more aggressive in getting bullpen arms. If we can’t afford outfielders, fine. However, there’s no excuse at all for the bullpen situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjohnson2009 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 3 minutes ago, candyman93 said: If anything we got worse, but it will be just enough in our terrible division. I don’t understand why we weren’t more aggressive in getting bullpen arms. If we can’t afford outfielders, fine. However, there’s no excuse at all for the bullpen situation. I think about it this way: 1) We are easily going to win the division 2) We have a gluttony of mysterious AAAA/fringe guys in the outfield picture that need to be moved off of the 40 man or evaluated at the MLB level 3) Relief pitchers are fickle and paying top dollar for one is rarely a good idea. Annually bringing in reclamation projects and converted minor league starters can produce comparable results to signing established veterans. 4) The trade deadline in the MLB allows teams to spend the first 4 months of the year evaluating existing, controllable assets The Indians are not giving up on the season or this group of players in any way. They're just being frugal because they're in a gift division and need to evaluate some position areas. They don't want to see guys like Jesus Aguilar succeed elsewhere, they want to evaluate them on their big league club. They will almost guaranteed take on salary this summer to fill in the holes where young guys didn't work out. This is just smart management for a team with limited payroll IMO. It's like running a small business. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 16 hours ago, MWil23 said: I don’t ever want to hear anyone bang against our attendance ever again after that blurb straight from Paul Dolan’s mouth...at least not as long as they own the team. Yep. After the crap they pulled. I gave them the benefit of the doubt to see if they make a move before the season. That family needs to get out of the business of owning teams. It’s not like we’re asking them to be like Boston or the Yankees and spending money all the time. We have a freaking World Series window, make some moves to make the team better. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceb Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 On 3/25/2019 at 12:40 PM, DawgX said: And this is another reason I'm not that excited about this season. We have a window to compete while we have our guys under contract and have a great rotation, yet what moves did we make this offseason to get better? I don't think we got any worse this offseason, but we didn't make any moves that make me feel confident that we can compete with Boston, New York and Houston. I think we definitely got worse at C in the OF and in the bullpen. Dolan apparently is content to be a farm system for MLB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateDawg Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 The Cleveland owners are the worst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 (edited) 42 minutes ago, NateDawg said: The Cleveland owners are the worst. The Indians is mostly on the fans. The owners had the highest payroll in Indians history the last 2 years and they finished 21st and 22nd in baseball in attendance. The year they went to the world series they were 28th in attendance. They legit built/paid for serious world series contending teams and even at their peak break into the top 20 in attendance. The club also paid for massive upgrades for the stadium to lure more fans to home games and still couldnt break top 20 attendance. Also, on average about 2/3 of the teams revenue come from the market size, fan expenses on games and sales from the teams brand. All related to spending based on size/fan interest. Indians fans are not spending and horrible attendance numbers directly impacts the amount of money coming into the organization which is in turn impacting the amount of money the owners are spending on player contracts. I dont blame the Dolans for not continuing to go into the red every year for a fanbase that doesnt support the team and doesnt show up to gamedays whether they have a 200m payroll or a 75mill payroll. You even have players like Kipnis who have called out fan attendance before. Kansas City finished dead last in the division and only averaged 3k less fans per game the the #1 division winning Indians. Edited March 27, 2019 by AkronsWitness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateDawg Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 2 hours ago, AkronsWitness said: The Indians is mostly on the fans. The owners had the highest payroll in Indians history the last 2 years and they finished 21st and 22nd in baseball in attendance. The year they went to the world series they were 28th in attendance. They legit built/paid for serious world series contending teams and even at their peak break into the top 20 in attendance. The club also paid for massive upgrades for the stadium to lure more fans to home games and still couldnt break top 20 attendance. Also, on average about 2/3 of the teams revenue come from the market size, fan expenses on games and sales from the teams brand. All related to spending based on size/fan interest. Indians fans are not spending and horrible attendance numbers directly impacts the amount of money coming into the organization which is in turn impacting the amount of money the owners are spending on player contracts. I dont blame the Dolans for not continuing to go into the red every year for a fanbase that doesnt support the team and doesnt show up to gamedays whether they have a 200m payroll or a 75mill payroll. You even have players like Kipnis who have called out fan attendance before. Kansas City finished dead last in the division and only averaged 3k less fans per game the the #1 division winning Indians. Those top payrolls in Tribe history were still just 15th and 18th in the majors. So, middle of the pack. https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/payroll/2018/ That 'record setting Indians payroll' is based on inflation and nothing more. Long-term, it is the same cycle of home-grown talent hitting their prime and pricing themselves out of the Cleveland payroll market. The Lindor to big market prophecy is nigh. And it's not because of the fans. It is because of ownership that isn't committed to paying for homegrown talent to stay in town. Ramirez would be on his way out also if he wasn't suckered into signing a low-ball deal before exploding a couple years ago. Sure, the attendance should be better. It sure would help if fans had an ounce of belief that the stars they root for now won't be playing in New York or LA a few years from now. As for Kipnis, forget that guy. Anymore, he gets paid to hit .230 and stike out a whole bunch of times while displaying limited defense. He doesn't have any ground to stand on. You may not blame the Dolans, but I do. I'm not asking him to go into the red on a yearly basis. I'm asking him to sell the team to someoene that is willing to spend the money and is passionate about owning a franchise. Enough of this rich, sanctimonious stick-in-the-mud. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 It’s 2019 and people still think attendance affects revenue? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Quite simply the Dolans don’t have deep enough pockets to play with the big boys. Sell to some billionaire who wants to try to win something and not just look at it as an investment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 3 hours ago, candyman93 said: It’s 2019 and people still think attendance affects revenue? That’s how the Dolans like to spin it. They use that excuse to explain why their cheap. Attendance isn’t a reason for it. Hell the Indians have better attandance over the past 5 years than the Phillies and we just saw what they did 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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