GSUeagles14 Posted February 5, 2018 Author Share Posted February 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, lancerman said: Cause we don’t know if he was playing significantly worse than the two guys in there. Maybe they were getting lit up, maybe Belichick still thought it was better than Butler getting blown up and doing more damage so youur saying because BB didnt know if hed be better than the two guys sucking he decided to pretend he doesnt exist. Why was Butler playng on STs if hes that compromised? Rowe came out and said he found out right before gametime, if Butler was that sick he obviously would have had an inkling. This makes no sense, and youre trying way to hard to sell it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir L Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 he would have done better covering than a safety Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said: You're right. Because they hire college kids, we must assume they're completely useless at their jobs. Pretty stupid statement. Because it's much more reasonable to just assume that they aren't right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 1 minute ago, GSUeagles14 said: so youur saying because BB didnt know if hed be better than the two guys sucking he decided to pretend he doesnt exist. Why was Butler playng on STs if hes that compromised? Rowe came out and said he found out right before gametime, if Butler was that sick he obviously would have had an inkling. This makes no sense, and youre trying way to hard to sell it. Cause we are both operating off next to know information and the only reports about Butler all week were that there was some type of illness. So unless there’s something we completely don’t know that comes out of left field.... to me that’s the most plausible explanation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 10 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said: Nobody's saying PFF is perfect. But why do we trust our own casual fan experience absent from all-22 tape over people that get paid to break these things down? Neither is perfect, but I trust PFF more than what Joe Scmo has to say. There are obvious anomalies (Jame Collins and OJ Howard being two of the worst players in the NFL), but overall the system is pretty good...or at least, better than anything any of us have come up with. It's not better than anything any of us could offer. Their system is flawed. However, they were smart and got in at the right time. Now, it would take a lot of time, sweat, and capital to match them. I know myself and others who could do a better job, but I don't have the time. I have a career. BTC, I might be thinking of someone else, but don't you have coaching experience? As we both know (because both of us have coaching experience), football is a team game reliant on each player playing their part correctly. PFF grades it as if it's a game of individuals with no regard for player responsibilities. They don't try to figure out what the scheme is. They don't try to figure out what each player is supposed to do. They simply look at individual match-ups and assume that each player is doing their job correctly. As we both know, that's often not true. Yes, PFF can usually tell you who the elite players are and who the terrible players are. That doesn't take talent. Anyone who watches the Rams knows that Aaron Donald is a monster. The challenge is correctly classifying the guys who don't fit in either category. PFF doesn't do a particularly good job of that. PFF has useful data, but their grades really aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childofpudding Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, lancerman said: Cause we are both operating off next to know information and the only reports about Butler all week were that there was some type of illness. So unless there’s something we completely don’t know that comes out of left field.... to me that’s the most plausible explanation Given Butler's comments after the game, it definitely seems like it's more than just an illness. My guess is that Butler would have said something if it was due to illness. The late decision on this, and the subsequent hammering the Patriots' D took, makes the decision to give snaps to Rowe, Bademosi and Richards over Butler really bad. Unless Butler was almost on his death bed mid-week, it's dumb. I have no idea why it happened, and if the team if just stonewalling any answer beyond "what we thought was best," that's lame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4L Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 18 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said: Nobody's saying PFF is perfect. But why do we trust our own casual fan experience absent from all-22 tape over people that get paid to break these things down? Neither is perfect, but I trust PFF more than what Joe Scmo has to say. There are obvious anomalies (Jame Collins and OJ Howard being two of the worst players in the NFL), but overall the system is pretty good...or at least, better than anything any of us have come up with. I'm fairly certain that PFF grades are derived from some computer program. They post their game grades within minutes of the game ending, that's not enough time for any human to break down film. Perhaps BB was just playing the matchups. Does anyone think he would have changed the outcome of the game? Also, he's been pretty malcontent all season when they didn't try to sign him to a LTD and after they tried to trade him to NO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnarok Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 PFF used to be semi-functional back when it took until Wednesday for the grades to come out. They currently flip grades in less than 24 hours. Coaching staffs don't do that. I will never be convinced that a team of uneducated kids can grade NFL players in a few hours better than the teams can grade their own players over a couple of days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMG5 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Do you guys think this drives his price down in free agency? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childofpudding Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Just now, N4L said: I'm fairly certain that PFF grades are derived from some computer program. They post their game grades within minutes of the game ending, that's not enough time for any human to break down film. Perhaps BB was just playing the matchups. Does anyone think he would have changed the outcome of the game? He may have broken up the TD by Jeffery, as Rowe was in coverage. That's the one that comes to mind, but I can't imagine a scenario where having Butler in would have led to the Eagles scoring more than 41 points. The Eagles scored on 8 of their 10 drives, with TDs on five of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, jrry32 said: It's not better than anything any of us could offer. Their system is flawed. However, they were smart and got in at the right time. Now, it would take a lot of time, sweat, and capital to match them. I know myself and others who could do a better job, but I don't have the time. I have a career. BTC, I might be thinking of someone else, but don't you have coaching experience? As we both know (because both of us have coaching experience), football is a team game reliant on each player playing their part correctly. PFF grades it as if it's a game of individuals with no regard for player responsibilities. They don't try to figure out what the scheme is. They don't try to figure out what each player is supposed to do. They simply look at individual match-ups and assume that each player is doing their job correctly. As we both know, that's often not true. Yes, PFF can usually tell you who the elite players are and who the terrible players are. That doesn't take talent. Anyone who watches the Rams knows that Aaron Donald is a monster. The challenge is correctly classifying the guys who don't fit in either category. PFF doesn't do a particularly good job of that. PFF has useful data, but their grades really aren't. They don't just grade individually and call it a day. They have a lot of comprehensive articles that they've been publishing for quite a few years now. I listen to their podcasts on a weekly basis, and while they do talk about players and how they graded by their own metrics, they also gave a lot of contextualization. Their player participation grading that came out around the time they started was really smart. When they didn't have access to All 22 footage. They had a really good multi part podcast series over the summer chronicling what they do and how they do it for newcomers or people that want to know the history behind their company. Pretty good listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 So there's this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Just now, N4L said: I'm fairly certain that PFF grades are derived from some computer program. This is exactly what they do. They are given a pre-determined stat sheet where all they have to do is fill in the blanks and the code itself compiles all of the data received from every recipient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Just now, jrry32 said: It's not better than anything any of us could offer. Their system is flawed. However, they were smart and got in at the right time. Now, it would take a lot of time, sweat, and capital to match them. I know myself and others who could do a better job, but I don't have the time. I have a career. BTC, I might be thinking of someone else, but don't you have coaching experience? As we both know (because both of us have coaching experience), football is a team game reliant on each player playing their part correctly. PFF grades it as if it's a game of individuals with no regard for player responsibilities. They don't try to figure out what the scheme is. They don't try to figure out what each player is supposed to do. They simply look at individual match-ups and assume that each player is doing their job correctly. As we both know, that's often not true. Yes, PFF can usually tell you who the elite players are and who the terrible players are. That doesn't take talent. Anyone who watches the Rams knows that Aaron Donald is a monster. The challenge is correctly classifying the guys who don't fit in either category. PFF doesn't do a particularly good job of that. PFF has useful data, but their grades really aren't. Yeah I do coach and I agree that it's not a perfect system. But I think it's ultimately pretty accurate. Are they going to have some bizarro rankings because of lack of scheme knowledge? Sure. I'm willing to bet that if an elite group of NFL coaches took on the job and had access to the schemes, PFF's grades would be pretty accurate. At least, more accurate than not. So I can't buy into a casual fan telling me Malcolm Butler sucks and when someone uses PFF to prove he's at least average, we hear "oh, well PFF is terrible." PFF is accurate enough 99% of the time to tell you if someone is hot garbage. The difference between average and hot garbage is pretty significant and I think PFF is good enough to determine this. Again, I don't take PFF as gospel and I've seen strange player rankings on there that make me scratch my head until it bleeds, but I'm not buying the argument that it's always wrong and holds no water whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, Ragnarok said: PFF used to be semi-functional back when it took until Wednesday for the grades to come out. They currently flip grades in less than 24 hours. Coaching staffs don't do that. I will never be convinced that a team of uneducated kids can grade NFL players in a few hours better than the teams can grade their own players over a couple of days. Interesting enough I think more than 2/3 of NFL teams now work with PFF in some capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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