BroncoSojia Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Now I think that Brady is the greatest QB of all time and I'm pretty sure most people share that thought. Some people, however, still think that Montana is the greatest, and they site his perfect record in the superbowl (4-0) vs Tom Brady's (now 5-3) My problem with this line of thought is that it penalizes Brady for making 8 superbowls and lets Montana off the hook for not getting to more. Montana didn't just play 4 years, he played 16. Which means 12 out of those 16 years he didn't make the playoffs or lost in the playoffs before the superbowl. His record is not "perfect" and neither is Brady, but Brady has more appearances AND wins. You can debate other arguments for or against either, but this particular argument drives me nuts. Losses in the superbowl can not be worse than losses before the superbowl in this contest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superduperman Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 I'm not putting this forth as swinging the argument one way or the other, just pointing out a few things: Brady has had the good fortune of having his whole career spent with one coach, and one continuous organization. Bill Walsh was only coach for 10 years, and then the Niners changed direction under Siefert and went with Steve Young. In the years that Montana and Walsh were together, they basically only ever lost to one other team: the Giants under Parcells, another all-time great franchise/era. The Patriots haven't had a rival like that, I don't count the Steelers, not consistent enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 1 hour ago, Superduperman said: I'm not putting this forth as swinging the argument one way or the other, just pointing out a few things: Brady has had the good fortune of having his whole career spent with one coach, and one continuous organization. Bill Walsh was only coach for 10 years, and then the Niners changed direction under Siefert and went with Steve Young. In the years that Montana and Walsh were together, they basically only ever lost to one other team: the Giants under Parcells, another all-time great franchise/era. The Patriots haven't had a rival like that, I don't count the Steelers, not consistent enough. The only team that's even remotely consistently beaten the Patriots is the Ravens back when we were consistent. It's a shame we've become irrelevant, because ultimately we were the only team that ever stood a chance against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 So what Montana had more seasons that he didn't even MAKE the Super Bowl, AND he has fewer rings. It's a idiotic argument. Montana is Top 3 all time yes, but Brady is the GOAT (even if as a person Brady is a dbag). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lod01 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Imagine the 49ers in this decade. Smoking Belicheck/Brady yearly. They were a superior team (to any Pats team) in a decade where you could punish a QB with brutal hits and not get flagged. They faced incredible competition vs the Giants , Redskins and for one year the Bears a (with one of the greatest Ds in history). The NFL championship back then WAS the SB. The SB was a simply a sacrifice of an AFC team to the NFC champion. You take the 80's/early 90s 49ers and put them in the AFC East over the last 2 decades, with no punishing the QB and Montana has more than 5 SBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 I think the argument has moved to looking at Joe's performances in his SBs vs Brady's in his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMossIsBoss Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Any argument for Montana has to be rooted around efficiency rather than volume. I think Brady is the undisputed GOAT in the same vein that Rice is, in that his resume is so much greater than the next best, but actual best QB? I think there's still room for debate there, and always will be. Who would you want for 1 drive, 1 game, 1 season? etc, When it comes to 4-0 vs 5-3, the argument would be that when Montana's team got there, he played amazing each time. When Brady's team got there, he didn't always seize the opportunity (although he has at least 4 times...). It's a bit tricky, and matter of perspective, I can kind of see both sides. Personally, while the SB is definitely more important than every other game, it is still 1 game out of hundreds for a QB. So I tend to view 4-0 vs 5-3 as Brady having played well enough in the regular season and postseason to get his team to the big game 8x, whereas Montana only did it 4x. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raves Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 17 hours ago, BroncoSojia said: Now I think that Brady is the greatest QB of all time and I'm pretty sure most people share that thought. Some people, however, still think that Montana is the greatest, and they site his perfect record in the superbowl (4-0) vs Tom Brady's (now 5-3) My problem with this line of thought is that it penalizes Brady for making 8 superbowls and lets Montana off the hook for not getting to more. Montana didn't just play 4 years, he played 16. Which means 12 out of those 16 years he didn't make the playoffs or lost in the playoffs before the superbowl. His record is not "perfect" and neither is Brady, but Brady has more appearances AND wins. You can debate other arguments for or against either, but this particular argument drives me nuts. Losses in the superbowl can not be worse than losses before the superbowl in this contest. LeBron or Jordan? Same argument can be made there yet it's unthinkable that LeBron will ever catch/surpass Jordan to many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaserFocus Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 10 hours ago, Raves said: LeBron or Jordan? Same argument can be made there yet it's unthinkable that LeBron will ever catch/surpass Jordan to many. Like many arguments, the people who actually experienced the great players and teams are usually better equipped to answer these questions. Jordan was a better defender than LeBron, and his edge as a two way player is enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmen Cygni Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 It's a dumb argument because the two best QBs are Marino and Manning. Also, W/L is not a QB stat so comparing Super Bowl records is irrelevant. #QBwinz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaserFocus Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 On 2/6/2018 at 3:01 PM, BroncoSojia said: Now I think that Brady is the greatest QB of all time and I'm pretty sure most people share that thought. Some people, however, still think that Montana is the greatest, and they site his perfect record in the superbowl (4-0) vs Tom Brady's (now 5-3) My problem with this line of thought is that it penalizes Brady for making 8 superbowls and lets Montana off the hook for not getting to more. Montana didn't just play 4 years, he played 16. Which means 12 out of those 16 years he didn't make the playoffs or lost in the playoffs before the superbowl. His record is not "perfect" and neither is Brady, but Brady has more appearances AND wins. You can debate other arguments for or against either, but this particular argument drives me nuts. Losses in the superbowl can not be worse than losses before the superbowl in this contest. The Patriots have had a cakewalk in the AFC East for years, and haven't had to deal with a consistently strong team like Baltimore in their own division. It's not their fault, just a reality of the situation. Losing three Super Bowls as a favorite isn't something to help in the GOAT context. And Montana didn't blow the biggest game of his career, like Brady did in SB42. The NFC in the 80s was also more difficult than the AFC during Brady's era. Let's also not forget Brady walked into a much better situation in NE than Joe did in SF, and the Chiefs haven't returned to the AFC TG since Montana's time there. In the GOAT context, we cannot reward losing three Super Bowls as favorites. The latest loss wasn't all Bardy's fault, but his accuracy was subpar, and make a huge mistake late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 The issue is that it proves how easy the road is for New England. The road was never this easy for Montana. Mariota, Bortles and Foles are literally the quarterbacks he played in the playoffs this year after playing a division of Cutler, Taylor and McCown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmen Cygni Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 10 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said: The issue is that it proves how easy the road is for New England. The road was never this easy for Montana. Mariota, Bortles and Foles are literally the quarterbacks he played in the playoffs this year after playing a division of Cutler, Taylor and McCown. How come I always miss these faceoffs? Where do these QBs find the time to square off in tennis, swimming, chess, or whatever 1v1 matchup games that are suggested here in the middle of football season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Just now, Carmen Cygni said: Where do these QBs find the time to square off in tennis, swimming, chess, or whatever 1v1 matchup games that are suggested here in the middle of football season? Probably in the same place a quarterback wins a Super Bowl by himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaglesPeteC Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Montana would have caught that pass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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