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aSK anything: 5.0: Designated Steve-vivor


Heimdallr

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Not even worth it to be a cop anymore.

A few bad cops do something horrific and it puts a target on yours and your family's backs. If you can muster up the courage to work the long hours with mediocre pay you can continue spending the next few days forming a police line. At that police line you get a SJW with green hair and tattoos all over her face screaming at you, calling you all sorts of terrible names, and saying they hope you die. Then the next week you get to sit on crime scene where the parents have done something straight out of Gone Bay Gone. Then you hop on social media and you have Celebrities and Athletes yelling F' the police. This all happens between the traffic stops where you get to pull over a drunk drivers or someone waiting to use a gun on you.

My heart hurts for Mr. Floyd and his family and It hurts for the good policemen/policewomen out there just trying to make a difference.

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2 minutes ago, TENINCH said:

At that police line you get a SJW with green hair and tattoos all over her face screaming at you, calling you all sorts of terrible names, and saying they hope you die. 

Or a bunch of heavily armed guys who never served show up wearing fatigues at your state capital and get in your face to scream at you because they can't go get a haircut. 

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1 minute ago, wcblack34 said:

Or a bunch of heavily armed guys who never served show up wearing fatigues at your state capital and get in your face to scream at you because they can't go get a haircut. 

Those guys aren't there to yell at the police.

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1 hour ago, wcblack34 said:

Great. Now explain this problem in Texas. Louisiana? Florida? Alabama? Georgia? Last I checked, they don't have Amy Klobuchar.

This isn't a party issue. It's a police issue. This takes place in every state in the union. It's the product of the prosecutors being too closely intertwined with law enforcement and a police culture that sets cops above the laws they're supposed to enforce.

I am sick and tired of law enforcement seemingly being above the laws. To me, if anything, they should be held accountable to a much higher standard than the rest of us. The rest of us haven't had any special training and equipment like they have. Yet, the rest of us know not to obstruct someone else's airway and we certainly know when they go limp to not continue kneeling on their neck for three more minutes.

The bar for charging a law enforcement officer should be much lower than the bar for charging a regular citizen. Those guys ought to know better than the rest of us. Instead, the bar seems to be higher for charging them. And when they are charged turning that into a conviction is much tougher. So, what the law enforcement officers learn from that is not that they are more accountable to the laws but instead they are less accountable. Some of them take advantage and in the worse cases things like this happen.

It is a sad state of affairs.

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36 minutes ago, TENINCH said:

It hurts for the good policemen/policewomen out there just trying to make a difference

I believe there are lots of good police.

It's striking to me that your post has many more details about the faults of the people the police are supposed to serve (the "SJW with green hair" etc) than the bad police themselves ("a few bad cops do something horrific"). The SJW hasn't broken any laws, even if she's rude and you don't like the way she looks. The cop, who killed someone by kneeling on his neck for no good reason, has. 

If the good police were more willing and able to regulate the bad police, the perception would be that there are just a few bad apples, and not that the bunch is spoiled.

As a doctor, I get much angrier at other doctors who abuse their power, give bad medical advice and fail to do what's necessary to protect people than I do patients, even when those patients are difficult or unreasonable. 

The police can get more respect by policing themselves. Protect the people. Stop protecting bad cops. 

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25 minutes ago, Krauser said:

If the good police were more willing and able to regulate the bad police, the perception would be that there are just a few bad apples, and not that the bunch is spoiled.

As a doctor, I get much angrier at other doctors who abuse their power, give bad medical advice and fail to do what's necessary to protect people than I do patients, even when those patients are difficult or unreasonable. 

The police can get more respect by policing themselves. Protect the people. Stop protecting bad cops. 

The doctors I work with get angry with other doctors but they do not, almost under any circumstances, throw their fellow doctors under the bus to anyone else. I believe they all fear legal repercussions and circle the wagons.

I believe the same is true of law enforcement officers. They likely have problems with other officers, but they do not air that dirty laundry. Getting them to testify against each other is very hard. They have unspoken rules just like the doctors. Even in cases where one of them feels the need to break from the unspoken rule, like in the case of officer Chip Olsen, it is difficult to get a conviction. Officer Lyn Anderson didn't go along with Olsen's BS story and testified.

Olsen's jury found him not guilty of both murder charges. He shot a naked guy that had no possibility of concealing a weapon and little possibility of doing much harm as he was grossly outsized by Olsen.

In my town the police killed a guy last year while arresting him in a Cub Foods parking lot. It wasn't as bad as what happened with George Floyd but when you kill a guy charges ought to be filed. The officers in my town were not charged.

Cops are not in a great position to police themselves. Prosecutors work closely with them and know many of them as cooperation is important for successful prosecutions. Those prosecutors are not in position to make decisions to not charge the LEO.

To me, it isn't all that different with doctors, at least not the ones that I have been around. They circle the wagons publicly just like law enforcement.

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3 hours ago, Cearbhall said:

The doctors I work with get angry with other doctors but they do not, almost under any circumstances, throw their fellow doctors under the bus to anyone else. I believe they all fear legal repercussions and circle the wagons.

A lot of doctors are publicly critical of quacks, hucksters, frauds and abusers who come to light in public (media, social media, etc). 

Medicine is a self regulating profession. Professional bodies are able to remove and restrict doctors who are causing problems. It's fair to say that a lot of that regulation happens outside the public eye, but it does happen.

It's not considered good professional behaviour to insult the work of other professionals. So most doctors won't complain out loud if they disagree with another doctor's work (in terms of making a different diagnosis or treatment plan, etc). 

It's quite different when another doctor's work is clearly below professional standards, dangerous, or criminal. Doctors in that situation have an ethical duty to report their colleague to the professional regulatory body, and/or to law enforcement. If you're suggesting that you're aware of doctors who should have made that kind of report, but didn't, I hope you understand that that's a strong accusation. 

Quote

Cops are not in a great position to police themselves. Prosecutors work closely with them and know many of them as cooperation is important for successful prosecutions. Those prosecutors are not in position to make decisions to not charge the LEO.

To me, it isn't all that different with doctors, at least not the ones that I have been around. They circle the wagons publicly just like law enforcement.

There are multiple well documented cases of cops who have lied and destroyed or altered evidence to protect each other, including in situations that result in public harm and the police getting away with criminal behaviour.

This week, dozens and dozens of cops have formed a protective line, guarding Derek Chauvin's house: https://nypost.com/2020/05/29/officers-protect-home-of-derek-chauvin-after-george-floyd-death/

Do you have examples of doctors who you know who have colluded in that way against patient interests, or to cover up criminal behavior? Do you know of any doctors who've similarly formed a physical shield to protect a colleague who caused deliberate harm?

If the police were more professional, they would be the first to sanction and remove bad cops. And more people would trust them. 

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1 minute ago, Krauser said:

A lot of doctors are publicly critical of quacks, hucksters, frauds and abusers who come to light in public (media, social media, etc).

Yeah, that is true. What I was writing about related to their colleagues. You are right that they'll bad mouth doctors that are not from the same institution that they do not find to be reputable. That is true in particular, if they see them as quacks, hucksters, frauds, etc...

3 minutes ago, Krauser said:

It's not considered good professional behaviour to insult the work of other professionals. So most doctors won't complain out loud if they disagree with another doctor's work (in terms of making a different diagnosis or treatment plan, etc).

^^ This is what I was referring to.  It seems likely that the same is true with law enforcement. I'll admit that I don't know many in law enforcement so it is more speculation.

5 minutes ago, Krauser said:

It's quite different when another doctor's work is clearly below professional standards, dangerous, or criminal. Doctors in that situation have an ethical duty to report their colleague to the professional regulatory body, and/or to law enforcement. If you're suggesting that you're aware of doctors who should have made that kind of report, but didn't, I hope you understand that that's a strong accusation. 

Oh heavens, no. Thanks for asking for clarification if what I wrote sounded that extreme to you. It is not that at all. I was merely comparing my personal experience with doctors covering for each other with my speculation of the likelihood of law enforcement likely similarly covering for each other. I have seen cases where doctors report things that they know to be criminal.

9 minutes ago, Krauser said:

Do you have examples of doctors who you know who have colluded in that way against patient interests, or to cover up criminal behavior? Do you know of any doctors who've similarly formed a physical shield to protect a colleague who caused deliberate harm?

No and no. Doctors do occasionally make the wrong call though. For some of them it happens more than others. The responses of other doctors in general and the institution is carefully crafted with a bias to paint the institution and doctor in the best light possible. That is what I speculate is what is generally happening in the law enforcement community too.  Yes, there are extreme cases in law enforcement that goes beyond that, but there are also extreme cases in the medical community too. Patients make some pretty strong complaints against doctors and the doctors and nurses generally band together to protect their own.

14 minutes ago, Krauser said:

If the police were more professional, they would be the first to sanction and remove bad cops. And more people would trust them. 

I too would like to see more of this. They do have internal affairs that deals with some of this, but there are pretty gross cases within the law enforcement and DA offices around the land that go on for quite a while.

I cannot talk about any specific examples from the medical institution I work at but I do maintain that within the medical community many have a mentality to protect their own and I have heard stories that reinforces that thought. Doctors sometimes mistreat/misdiagnose patients and when that happens colleagues generally do not point the finger at each other in front of the patient. They might have it out behind closed doors instead. That is what I am speculating happens with law enforcement. In public, they show a unified voice but in private we do not know they are not having it out behind closed doors....just like doctors.

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I agree there should be a better way to police the police and I don't know what that way is. Maybe prosecutors assigned from a different state for all law enforcement so there isn't the cooperation to worry about. We as Americans have gone the complete wrong way of protesting these issues. My kids now have a 5pm curfew because we are worried the nearest Target is going to get set on fire. Burning our already struggling business down and rioting the streets is not taking the danger of losing more loves it is increasing it. I don't understand how communities got together and decided I know how we will be heard, I know what will help, Let burn down businesses and in danger a bunch of innocent   people. This will get the law working in our favor! 

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