2018 Free Agency - Prospects for GB

[SSG]

3 hours ago, vegas492 said:

I agree, 100%, about Wilkerson and his last year or two in New York.

I'm not forgetting the cancer that Wilkerson was.  And I'm looking forward to seeing if he can resurrect his NFL career and reputation.

I'd also look forward to seeing if Dez could turn it around in GB, if he were signed.  If I'm being objective, I personally don't want him, but I do have to admit that he'd better a better option in the offense than Geronimo Allison.  Heard a guy on Sirius XM (maybe it was Ross Tucker) say that Dez was on pace for a 1,000 yard season 2 years ago before injuries hit him, so he was producing under Dak...it wasn't just Romo.

Agreed.  I'm not even slightly worried about how Dez would fit into the locker room on a one year deal.  While he has his issues, he's regarded by a lot of his teammates as a very loyal, good guy to have around. 

I also don't see it happening.  This front office, like the last lacks aggression and isn't in any sort of win now mode.  IMO they much rather start a rookie or Allison in a move for the future than make any sort of desperate move to win now. 

Like Jordy Nelson's, I think Dez Bryant's demise is being greatly exaggerated. 

[vegas492]

5 hours ago, vegas492 said:

I agree, 100%, about Wilkerson and his last year or two in New York.

I'm not forgetting the cancer that Wilkerson was.  And I'm looking forward to seeing if he can resurrect his NFL career and reputation.

I'd also look forward to seeing if Dez could turn it around in GB, if he were signed.  If I'm being objective, I personally don't want him, but I do have to admit that he'd better a better option in the offense than Geronimo Allison.  Heard a guy on Sirius XM (maybe it was Ross Tucker) say that Dez was on pace for a 1,000 yard season 2 years ago before injuries hit him, so he was producing under Dak...it wasn't just Romo.

 

1 hour ago, jleisher said:

Wasn't Bennett considered a cancer?  So, why not kick Dez's tires?

No reason not to.  I'm not for him because I don't like his personality...and that is specific to me as a fan.  As far as a football player, I think he could help the squad, so if signed, I'd look forward to seeing what he can do...and if he can be a team first kind of guy.  

[Norm]

2 hours ago, jleisher said:

Wasn't Bennett considered a cancer?  So, why not kick Dez's tires?

You realize this sounds crazy right?

[packfanfb]

3 hours ago, NormSizedMidget said:

You realize this sounds crazy right?

It does, but I think it works the other way as well. Bennett was fine when Rodgers was healthy and hell, he wasnt even getting many targets. If I had to put money on Dez either making the pro bowl with Rodgers vs. him being a whiny ***** distraction disaster, I'd bet on the former. 

[Scoremore]

Reports are the guy can't get separation.  Sound familiar?  Hey if we could get him on a cheap prove it deal well it's worth at least considering.  He turned down a 3 year 24 million dollar deal.  That was very stupid on his part.  Now he's out there fluttering in the wind.  Someone will pick him up and maybe it will be the Packers.  Think we need to see what we have with the rooks and 2nd year guys first.  If they bomb out and Dez is still available we might dial him up as a stop gap.  I think he could help but don't view him as an upgrade to Jordy.  Packers reportedly are not interested in Dez.  I believe it.  View Dez to GB as highly unlikely.  Pack wants to get faster.  We have big tall fast guys now.  Have to believe one of them will emerge.

[blankman0021]

13 hours ago, SSG said:

Agreed.  I'm not even slightly worried about how Dez would fit into the locker room on a one year deal.  While he has his issues, he's regarded by a lot of his teammates as a very loyal, good guy to have around. 

I also don't see it happening.  This front office, like the last lacks aggression and isn't in any sort of win now mode.  IMO they much rather start a rookie or Allison in a move for the future than make any sort of desperate move to win now. 

Like Jordy Nelson's, I think Dez Bryant's demise is being greatly exaggerated. 

True. And last year we should have really signed a veteran running back. Going into the year with 4 inexperienced running backs hampered us all year, and now we’re in the same hole this year at RB. We haven’t signed anybody like Doug Martin to take over the backfield. 

/sarcasm

Honestly, if we don’t give the rookies a chance to play, nobody will break through. I’m not saying they will just because they have an opportunity. But we know what Dez is, and I’m not sure he’s anything but a name at this point. All the WR we drafted this year are taller and faster. Dez wasn’t an amazing route runner. He is a jump ball, physical WR. Day 1 is he better than our trio? Probably. But by week 16 I bet we’re saying how good one of our rookies is performing and excited about his future. That doesn’t happen if we waste salary on Dez. We also lose the power to sign a future FA if we waste money on a 4th target rental. The cap rolls over so 3-4M this year could be retained and used when necessary in the future. Plus, Adams, Cobb, and Graham should all get more targets than Dez would in this offense. 

[packfanfb]

3 hours ago, blankman0021 said:

True. And last year we should have really signed a veteran running back. Going into the year with 4 inexperienced running backs hampered us all year, and now we’re in the same hole this year at RB. We haven’t signed anybody like Doug Martin to take over the backfield. 

/sarcasm

Honestly, if we don’t give the rookies a chance to play, nobody will break through. I’m not saying they will just because they have an opportunity. But we know what Dez is, and I’m not sure he’s anything but a name at this point. All the WR we drafted this year are taller and faster. Dez wasn’t an amazing route runner. He is a jump ball, physical WR. Day 1 is he better than our trio? Probably. But by week 16 I bet we’re saying how good one of our rookies is performing and excited about his future. That doesn’t happen if we waste salary on Dez. We also lose the power to sign a future FA if we waste money on a 4th target rental. The cap rolls over so 3-4M this year could be retained and used when necessary in the future. Plus, Adams, Cobb, and Graham should all get more targets than Dez would in this offense. 

This isn't even apples to oranges....it's apples to potatoes. 

The transition for RBs from college to pros is by far one of the easiest positions in the NFL. It's the exact opposite for WRs which is one of the hardest positions outside of QB. It's very rare that even 1st round WRs have decent years as a rookie whereas rookie RBs lately have been stars from day 1. 

Your second point doesn't mean much....so what. Every team in the NFL knew these guys' measureables on draft day. They are still day 3 picks and you're taking a huge gamble counting on ANY of them to do much this year. 

Your third point is complete speculation. It is just as likely, if not more likely, that by week 16 none of those rookies will have over 10 receptions. You want to take that chance? I'd rather sign the sure thing for now and hope one of these rookies looks really good by week 16 so I can say, "wow he looks like a stud, so we are set for next year when this guy is coming into year 2." 

Your fourth point is nonsense. Cobb's outrageous salary is going to be gone and I think the projection right now, not taking into account ARod's new deal, is that the Packers are going to be around $60 million or so under the cap. We'll have more money than Gute will know what to do with. We can easily sign Dez or another vet WR and it will not make the slightest bit of difference....except help us win this year, which seems to matter more to some people on here versus others. 

[vegas492]

4 hours ago, blankman0021 said:

True. And last year we should have really signed a veteran running back. Going into the year with 4 inexperienced running backs hampered us all year, and now we’re in the same hole this year at RB. We haven’t signed anybody like Doug Martin to take over the backfield. 

/sarcasm

Honestly, if we don’t give the rookies a chance to play, nobody will break through. I’m not saying they will just because they have an opportunity. But we know what Dez is, and I’m not sure he’s anything but a name at this point. All the WR we drafted this year are taller and faster. Dez wasn’t an amazing route runner. He is a jump ball, physical WR. Day 1 is he better than our trio? Probably. But by week 16 I bet we’re saying how good one of our rookies is performing and excited about his future. That doesn’t happen if we waste salary on Dez. We also lose the power to sign a future FA if we waste money on a 4th target rental. The cap rolls over so 3-4M this year could be retained and used when necessary in the future. Plus, Adams, Cobb, and Graham should all get more targets than Dez would in this offense. 

 

55 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

This isn't even apples to oranges....it's apples to potatoes. 

The transition for RBs from college to pros is by far one of the easiest positions in the NFL. It's the exact opposite for WRs which is one of the hardest positions outside of QB. It's very rare that even 1st round WRs have decent years as a rookie whereas rookie RBs lately have been stars from day 1. 

Your second point doesn't mean much....so what. Every team in the NFL knew these guys' measureables on draft day. They are still day 3 picks and you're taking a huge gamble counting on ANY of them to do much this year. 

Your third point is complete speculation. It is just as likely, if not more likely, that by week 16 none of those rookies will have over 10 receptions. You want to take that chance? I'd rather sign the sure thing for now and hope one of these rookies looks really good by week 16 so I can say, "wow he looks like a stud, so we are set for next year when this guy is coming into year 2." 

Your fourth point is nonsense. Cobb's outrageous salary is going to be gone and I think the projection right now, not taking into account ARod's new deal, is that the Packers are going to be around $60 million or so under the cap. We'll have more money than Gute will know what to do with. We can easily sign Dez or another vet WR and it will not make the slightest bit of difference....except help us win this year, which seems to matter more to some people on here versus others. 

I"m not for Dez...the person.  I just don't like him.

And even though that is my stance on him, even I have to admit that Dez Bryant, now, is better than anyone else we have on the roster not named Adams and Graham.  He would help the offense.

It takes WR's years to get it down.  Not games.  Years.  Look at how good Davante turned out...and it still took him years.  Jennings was the best rookie WR I can remember since Sharpe, and he was known as a route runner coming out and a second round pick.  Expecting Moore, St. Brown and MVS to produce like Jennings did, or even James Jones just isn't fair to those lower drafted rookies.

Rookie Wr's compared to rookie RB's is not apples to apples.  Not.  Even.  Close.

 

[Spartacus]

1 hour ago, packfanfb said:

Your second point doesn't mean much....so what. Every team in the NFL knew these guys' measureables on draft day. They are still day 3 picks and you're taking a huge gamble counting on ANY of them to do much this year. 

TBH is it any less of a gamble then relying on an old, slow, and diva WR? There is a chance that none of the day 3 WRs amount to anything but I would rather work with some receivers with tools then one that seems to have lost his ability to separate, with questionable hands, and a malcontent. This isn't 2013 Dez Bryant anymore and he has not aged nearly as well as other WRs his age. 

I wouldn't be upset if we signed him to a team friendly one year deal but honestly don't believe he will be the reason we win or lose games. 

 

[SSG]

6 hours ago, blankman0021 said:

True. And last year we should have really signed a veteran running back. Going into the year with 4 inexperienced running backs hampered us all year, and now we’re in the same hole this year at RB. We haven’t signed anybody like Doug Martin to take over the backfield. 

/sarcasm

Honestly, if we don’t give the rookies a chance to play, nobody will break through. I’m not saying they will just because they have an opportunity. But we know what Dez is, and I’m not sure he’s anything but a name at this point. All the WR we drafted this year are taller and faster. Dez wasn’t an amazing route runner. He is a jump ball, physical WR. Day 1 is he better than our trio? Probably. But by week 16 I bet we’re saying how good one of our rookies is performing and excited about his future. That doesn’t happen if we waste salary on Dez. We also lose the power to sign a future FA if we waste money on a 4th target rental. The cap rolls over so 3-4M this year could be retained and used when necessary in the future. Plus, Adams, Cobb, and Graham should all get more targets than Dez would in this offense. 

I don't agree with that view but I completely understand it.  My biggest issue with it is the difference in positions.  IMO RB is a far quicker and easier transition from college to the NFL than WR.

I'm not as optimistic about the rookies as some.  We've had terrible success with day 3 rookie WRs despite a rather large investment into the position in day 3.  Just in the last 5 years, we've seen 7 WRs taken day 3 (Dorsey, Johnson, Abbrederis, Janis,Davis, Yancy and Dupre) and not one of them developed into a starter much less a starter as a rookie. 

Signing Dez provides a couple things.  First, a starting caliber WR on the outside who is as talented as any WR AR12 has ever had to throw to.  Maybe I'm naïve but I am not of the belief that Dez is done and washed up at the age of 29. A lot of people thought Randy Moss was done and washed up at the age of 29 as well and he obviously proved those people wrong.  Second, he provides depth.  If Adams goes down with an injury we could have issues on the boundary which IMO is the second most important position in our offense.  Third, if Dez has a quality year and leaves after just one season we could very likely be in line for a comp pick. 

If we signed Dez, I wouldn't at all be surprised if he lead the team in targets, catches, yards and TDs.  Adams is a very good WR but he's never been a high volume #1 WR in his career.  People are talking about Bryant's 2017 season as being terrible but he still had 69 catches, over 850 yards and 6 TDs with a QB who's not really all that that great of a thrower.  IMO as long as Dak is in Dallas Dez was gonna be a round peg being jammed into a square hole. 

[{Family Ghost}]

I'd love to see the Packers sign Dez .. think he's going to be a hungry player.  I'm sure he'd love to prove the doubters wrong.  I do however doubt the Packers ink the guy ... Seems with Adams, Graham, Cobb, Geronimo, and some promising rooks and 2nd year guys we should be fine.  I see Graham lining up wide a lot .. he's basically a 6'-7" wideout a decent majority of the time.  I think a solid all around tight end acquisition might make some sense for the Packers as well ... Who's still out there?

[SSG]

1 hour ago, Spartacus said:

TBH is it any less of a gamble then relying on an old, slow, and diva WR? There is a chance that none of the day 3 WRs amount to anything but I would rather work with some receivers with tools then one that seems to have lost his ability to separate, with questionable hands, and a malcontent. This isn't 2013 Dez Bryant anymore and he has not aged nearly as well as other WRs his age. 

I wouldn't be upset if we signed him to a team friendly one year deal but honestly don't believe he will be the reason we win or lose games. 

 

When did 29 become old?  Julio Jones (4 months younger) and Antonio Brown (a couple months older) are what we would consider old WRs in the NFL nowadays? 

[Spartacus]

Just now, SSG said:

When did 29 become old?  Julio Jones (4 months younger) and Antonio Brown (a couple months older) are what we would consider old WRs in the NFL nowadays? 

29 isn't old but Dez Bryant has not aged well. 

[OneTwoSixFive]

14 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Rookie Wr's compared to rookie RB's is not apples to apples.  Not.  Even.  Close.

I have to agree. Even good receivers (like Jordy, who was very good)  take time to shine. There is a huge amount more to being a WR in the NFL, than in most college programs.

I'd rank QB, TE, DT and WR as among the tougher positions to learn. RB is the easiest, as shown in the past by some very commendable rookie RB performances. It is one of the positions most reliant on instincts, and not hugely different from what was required at college (compared to many other positions). One thing often lacking in rookie RBs though, is pass protection.  

[{Family Ghost}]

Answering my own question on available tight ends.  Seems Gary Barnidge and Mercedes Lewis are the top ones available.  Both are solid blockers, but Lewis is 34.  Barnidge is no spring chicken at 32. I'd take a look at Barnidge in a backup role.  He's also worked with our TE coach Brian Angelichio, and might be a fit.