2018 Free Agency - Prospects for GB

[blankman0021]

2 hours ago, OneTwoSixFive said:

I have to agree. Even good receivers (like Jordy, who was very good)  take time to shine. There is a huge amount more to being a WR in the NFL, than in most college programs.

I'd rank QB, TE, DT and WR as among the tougher positions to learn. RB is the easiest, as shown in the past by some very commendable rookie RB performances. It is one of the positions most reliant on instincts, and not hugely different from what was required at college (compared to many other positions). One thing often lacking in rookie RBs though, is pass protection.  

I'm comparing situations pre and post draft, rather than football positions. But I feel my point holds still. If you bring in Dez,  you're giving all 3 redshirt seasons. There is just no way they see the field over a guy you're paying Millions, even if Dez isn't great. I'm just not sure that Dez give you anything that the rookies don't. He isn't consistent. He isn't fast. He isn't know for his route running. He isn't known for his knowledge of the playbook - and he isn't coming from a similar offense.

So with all that said, I'm not sure what seperates Dez from the rookies. I admit he's better, but it's only because he has a higher floor at this point. Dez gives you another redzone target, and a physical WR who wins at point of attack. But Rodgers isn't known for throwing the 50/50 ball Dez likes to play. It'd be a Dak situation all over again where Dez is a high profile WR languishing in 40-60 yard games. 

Plenty of rookie WRs hit in the NFL, but only in positions where they can play right away. We haven't been on of those teams for years because of our depth at WR. 

We're thin there, no doubt. But I am of the belief that we need to give our players a chance to succeed at some point. Otherwise we might as well have not taken them. I'm not sure all 3 fit on the roster at that point, if we sign a vet.

[SSG]

15 minutes ago, blankman0021 said:

I'm comparing situations pre and post draft, rather than football positions. But I feel my point holds still. If you bring in Dez,  you're giving all 3 redshirt seasons. There is just no way they see the field over a guy you're paying Millions, even if Dez isn't great. I'm just not sure that Dez give you anything that the rookies don't. He isn't consistent. He isn't fast. He isn't know for his route running. He isn't known for his knowledge of the playbook - and he isn't coming from a similar offense.

So with all that said, I'm not sure what seperates Dez from the rookies. I admit he's better, but it's only because he has a higher floor at this point. Dez gives you another redzone target, and a physical WR who wins at point of attack. But Rodgers isn't known for throwing the 50/50 ball Dez likes to play. It'd be a Dak situation all over again where Dez is a high profile WR languishing in 40-60 yard games. 

Plenty of rookie WRs hit in the NFL, but only in positions where they can play right away. We haven't been on of those teams for years because of our depth at WR. 

We're thin there, no doubt. But I am of the belief that we need to give our players a chance to succeed at some point. Otherwise we might as well have not taken them. I'm not sure all 3 fit on the roster at that point, if we sign a vet.

I don't think their automatically seeing redshirt seasons if Dez is brought in. Allison seen over 30% of our offensive snaps last year.  This situation if they added Dez wouldn't be anymore crowded of a WR room than it was when we added both Cobb (Driver, Jennings, Jones and Nelson) and Nelson (Jennings, Driver, Jones). 

The idea that only WRs that play right away have success isn't true.  Jordy Nelson and Randall Cobb worked out.  Antonio Brown , Emmanuel Sanders, Demaryius Thomas, Adam Thielen, Marvin Jones, Doug Baldwin, ect all took seasons to develop and didn't need a substantial amount of early snaps. 

[OneTwoSixFive]

I don't think the Packers are interested in Dez, but that is not where I'm going with this. I think the only rookie who loses snaps if Dez comes in, is J'mon Moore, and maybe not even him. I reckon a vet WR is helpful for one year while the rooks learn. Second year they need to be showing an upward path and getting chances in real games. I disagree with your optimism that rookie WRs can 'hit' shine, whatever, in their rookie year.

[Norm]

17 hours ago, packfanfb said:

It does, but I think it works the other way as well. Bennett was fine when Rodgers was healthy and hell, he wasnt even getting many targets. If I had to put money on Dez either making the pro bowl with Rodgers vs. him being a whiny ***** distraction disaster, I'd bet on the former. 

I know what he meant and everything. It was just kind of worded strangely

And yeah I trust Dez to be fine. The media would bust their *** trying to find things but it would be okay I bet.

[fattlipp]

Dez is great at catching contested balls, ARod doesnt throw contested balls, hell take a sack before throwing into coverage unless end of game/half etc. You know who else was great at catching contested balls.....  Janis, he got what.... 1 game to show it.

[packfanfb]

7 minutes ago, fattlipp said:

Dez is great at catching contested balls, ARod doesnt throw contested balls, hell take a sack before throwing into coverage unless end of game/half etc. You know who else was great at catching contested balls.....  Janis, he got what.... 1 game to show it.

I just don't see this as being accurate. Rodgers is one of the best in the game at throwing into tight windows, throwing the back shoulder and generally throwing guys open even when they are covered. He has to be great at these things because less than half of the time our WR isn't really "open" -- he's covered but ARod puts it on the money and the defender cannot do a damn thing about it. Those are same type of "contested" plays that Dez excels at. 

[fattlipp]

15 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

I just don't see this as being accurate. Rodgers is one of the best in the game at throwing into tight windows, throwing the back shoulder and generally throwing guys open even when they are covered. He has to be great at these things because less than half of the time our WR isn't really "open" -- he's covered but ARod puts it on the money and the defender cannot do a damn thing about it. Those are same type of "contested" plays that Dez excels at. 

if he's throwing to a spot the defender cant get to or do anything about, its not really contested.

Dez is great at 50/50 balls, jump balls, makes a bad QB better type... He no better at getting open than Jordy was or Allison is...

[vegas492]

2 hours ago, blankman0021 said:

 

So with all that said, I'm not sure what seperates Dez from the rookies. I admit he's better, but it's only because he has a higher floor at this point. Dez gives you another redzone target, and a physical WR who wins at point of attack. But Rodgers isn't known for throwing the 50/50 ball Dez likes to play. It'd be a Dak situation all over again where Dez is a high profile WR languishing in 40-60 yard games. 

So, I just want to point this out, because this comes up a lot...that Dez couldn't produce with Dak...

Dak started all games in 2016...along with Zeke.  Dez was the established guy and somehow people forgot just how effective he was ...with a new QB and a great running back, so obviously the offense shifted to a running attack.

Dez played in 13 games (he was hurt), caught 50 balls for 796 yards.  8 TD's.  Average per catch was 15.9.  You know when else he averaged that many yards per catch?  NEVER!

Despite the rookie QB and the phenomenal RB...he was on pace for a 1,000 yard season with double digit TD's.  

But he was injured.  Concussion on August 22.  Knee patella fracture on September 25.

The guy simply produced despite his rookie QB and his all world running back.

He's only 29.  Give him a compliment on the other side, which I don't think he's ever had.  A tight end, which he's had in Witten.  Throw in an all time great at QB, and I have no doubt that he would produce.  (By typing this I'm almost changing my mind about bringing him in.)

[SSG]

5 hours ago, vegas492 said:

So, I just want to point this out, because this comes up a lot...that Dez couldn't produce with Dak...

Dak started all games in 2016...along with Zeke.  Dez was the established guy and somehow people forgot just how effective he was ...with a new QB and a great running back, so obviously the offense shifted to a running attack.

Dez played in 13 games (he was hurt), caught 50 balls for 796 yards.  8 TD's.  Average per catch was 15.9.  You know when else he averaged that many yards per catch?  NEVER!

Despite the rookie QB and the phenomenal RB...he was on pace for a 1,000 yard season with double digit TD's.  

But he was injured.  Concussion on August 22.  Knee patella fracture on September 25.

The guy simply produced despite his rookie QB and his all world running back.

He's only 29.  Give him a compliment on the other side, which I don't think he's ever had.  A tight end, which he's had in Witten.  Throw in an all time great at QB, and I have no doubt that he would produce.  (By typing this I'm almost changing my mind about bringing him in.)

I agree.  Dez's demise is greatly exaggerated IMO.  The idea that he's a WR who's slow and incapable of getting open is false rhetoric IMO.  

That Dallas playoff game in early 2017 wasn't that long ago.  Dez put the Dallas offense on his back and single handily put his team back into the game.  It didn't matter who we put on him or how many we put on him he was not coverable.  

[CWood21]

52 minutes ago, SSG said:

I agree.  Dez's demise is greatly exaggerated IMO.  The idea that he's a WR who's slow and incapable of getting open is false rhetoric IMO.  

Greatly exaggerated?  So you think it's just a coincidence that he broke his foot in 2015, and his production since then has been mediocre compared to pre-injury?

[packfanfb]

10 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Greatly exaggerated?  So you think it's just a coincidence that he broke his foot in 2015, and his production since then has been mediocre compared to pre-injury?

Personally, I think his dip in production is tied mostly to Prescott as his QB. 

[HighCalebR]

9 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

Personally, I think his dip in production is tied mostly to Prescott as his QB. 

Maybe, but is that because Dak isn't good or that he doesn't like to throw 50/50 balls to stay away from ints? He's kept a pretty good TD/Int ratio his first two years.. He's a spread QB who is good at finding checkdowns or hitting an open man. Does Dez win when he is the primary read? The Cowboys letting him go when the next best WR1 is Williams tells me probably not. Bryant's drops probably haven't helped the QB/WR connection either. Dez coming out was known for being bigger, stronger and also better at high pointing the ball than the guy across from him, would you say much has really changed for the better with his game? 

[pollino14]

Idt it has to be either or for Dez. He may not be top 10 anymore, but he still has value and talent wise would start on basically everyone. If we signed him, I guarantee he’d make the offense better. 

Is his character that big of a problem and will he sign for a reasonable amount; that’s up for GB to figure out and decide

[CWood21]

13 hours ago, packfanfb said:

Personally, I think his dip in production is tied mostly to Prescott as his QB. 

Except for the Dak Prescott played pretty damn well in 2016, even if he regressed in 2017.  Over a healthy 16 game season, Dez would have 62 receptions, 980 receiving yards, and 10 TD receptions.  Compare that to his last healthy season (2014) when he posted 88 receptions, 1320 receiving yards, and 16 TD receptions.  He's no longer the 90 reception, 1300 receiving yards, and 12 TD reception WR anymore.  Expecting anything resembling that production is wildly unrealistic.

[St Vince]

I'd say Dez is an upgrade over Allison all day long. In this offense Dez would be going up against opposing teams 3rd and 4th DB's which would be downright criminal.