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2018 Free Agency - Prospects for GB


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6 hours ago, Dubz41 said:

Jeezus man,  stop it.  These 'uncomfortable truths' are getting in the way of the hate train......

Fack will make the team, but will see his value mostly on special teams.

 

Yep... All the cool chicks ignore Fack's positives and double down on his negatives.

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1 hour ago, Packerraymond said:

No I'm saying the style of pick that Fackrell was (Rollins, Ryan, Lowry, etc) was the type of pick Ted kept taking and deteriorating our defense.

no kidding !

Especially since the next picks were Darrelle Revis right after Rollins, Brian Urlacher right after Jake Ryan and JJ Watt right after Lowry.

That's just pathetic drafting... 

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1 hour ago, Shanedorf said:

no kidding !

Especially since the next picks were Darrelle Revis right after Rollins, Brian Urlacher right after Jake Ryan and JJ Watt right after Lowry.

That's just pathetic drafting... 

I don't understand why a high quality poster as yourself resorts to these dumb posts?

Think whatever you want, but that versatile, heady, instinctual defense that Ted started picking in 2013 has been on display for the last few years. Could add Damarious, Datone and Bradford too. Hyde and Hayward were really the only ones to hit from that mold and they're doing it elsewhere. You find any coincidence that the first draft sans Ted pretty much looks like the all Sparq team? Clear what we lacked.

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1 hour ago, Packerraymond said:

I don't understand why a high quality poster as yourself resorts to these dumb posts?

Clear what we lacked.

Hindsight is 50/50 right ?

If you can kindly share specific names of who TT should have taken at those slots -  then I'll be a little smarter tomorrow.

I believe the Packers defense deteriorated in large part because they went to the playoffs 8 years in a row and the reverse draft order eventually got to them. Capers role in this has been beaten to death, but I believe the talent drain was more the result of draft position than picking the wrong "type" of players. Maybe I'm wrong about that -  but when I cruise through Draft History, I don't see obviously better players that jump out. (I look at the next 3-4 players drafted at that position, CB, DE, ILB etc)

http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/

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4 hours ago, Shanedorf said:

Hindsight is 50/50 right ?

If you can kindly share specific names of who TT should have taken at those slots -  then I'll be a little smarter tomorrow.

I believe the Packers defense deteriorated in large part because they went to the playoffs 8 years in a row and the reverse draft order eventually got to them. Capers role in this has been beaten to death, but I believe the talent drain was more the result of draft position than picking the wrong "type" of players. Maybe I'm wrong about that -  but when I cruise through Draft History, I don't see obviously better players that jump out. (I look at the next 3-4 players drafted at that position, CB, DE, ILB etc)

http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/

So no athletic defensive players went in 2013-2016 after the 20s that were good?

Funny how Nick Collins came from a year we picked in the 20s, Kevin King and Josh Jones came from a year we had no first round pick. Nick Perry, Aaron Rouse, Justin Harrell, Montravious Adams, Mike Daniels, years we had more capital it still holds true with Hawk, Matthews, Raji. Ted found some upper echelon athletes. 2013-2016 marked a shift in how he drafted defensive players. Versatility and instincts became more regarded than sheer athletic ability. The Falcons and Saints expose exactly what that brought every time we play them in that dome. LIS, there is a reason Ted took King and Jones and Gute took it a step further. Our WRs were slowest in the NFL and I'm sure I'd they calculated speed in the post Shields era our DBs would have been too. We couldn't match up to athletes.

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56 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

So no athletic defensive players went in 2013-2016 after the 20s that were good?

Funny how Nick Collins came from a year we picked in the 20s, Kevin King and Josh Jones came from a year we had no first round pick. Nick Perry, Aaron Rouse, Justin Harrell, Montravious Adams, Mike Daniels, years we had more capital it still holds true with Hawk, Matthews, Raji. Ted found some upper echelon athletes. 2013-2016 marked a shift in how he drafted defensive players. Versatility and instincts became more regarded than sheer athletic ability. The Falcons and Saints expose exactly what that brought every time we play them in that dome. LIS, there is a reason Ted took King and Jones and Gute took it a step further. Our WRs were slowest in the NFL and I'm sure I'd they calculated speed in the post Shields era our DBs would have been too. We couldn't match up to athletes.

That wasn't the question asked. 

Missing on 4th rounders isn't killing this team. Not finding a stand out in half a decade on defense is killing us.

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1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

That wasn't the question asked. 

Missing on 4th rounders isn't killing this team. Not finding a stand out in half a decade on defense is killing us.

Where did I say missing on 4th rounders killed us? My point was Kyler was part of the defensive philosophy shift that Ted seemed to have at the end, IMO the type of player he looked for in that time killed the defense.

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29 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Where did I say missing on 4th rounders killed us? My point was Kyler was part of the defensive philosophy shift that Ted seemed to have at the end, IMO the type of player he looked for in that time killed the defense.

I'd be leery about making the assumption that any one thing caused the Packers' defense to take multiple step backs.  I didn't mind the gamble on Thornton or Fackrell, but it's the guys like Patrick Lee or Jerel Worthy that get me.

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2 hours ago, Packerraymond said:

Where did I say missing on 4th rounders killed us? My point was Kyler was part of the defensive philosophy shift that Ted seemed to have at the end, IMO the type of player he looked for in that time killed the defense.

What kind of player has you so bothered? What is this philosophy you're referring to?

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1 hour ago, CWood21 said:

I'd be leery about making the assumption that any one thing caused the Packers' defense to take multiple step backs.  I didn't mind the gamble on Thornton or Fackrell, but it's the guys like Patrick Lee or Jerel Worthy that get me.

Why does the Jerel Worthy pick get you?  He was a dominate force in one of the major college football conferences over multiple seasons.  Injuries were his biggest issue IMO.  He tore his ACL in the final game of his rookie season (which wasn't a terrible season) which slowed him his sophomore season.  In the off-season of his sophomore season he jacked up his back which required surgery.  

IMO he wasn't a bad pick rather just bad luck.  As a prospect, he had substantially more upside than either Thorton or Fackrell both of whom were WTH? type of picks (IMO).  Two of the oldest prospects in their class that offered little to no upside.  

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1 hour ago, Packerraymond said:

My point was Kyler was part of the defensive philosophy shift that Ted seemed to have at the end, IMO the type of player he looked for in that time killed the defense.

You still haven't answered the question of naming who the Packers should have drafted in those specific slots. You're ascribing the Packers choices to a philosophy, I'm ascribing the Packers choices to who was actually available in those slots.

Did the Packers pass on Ryan Shazier and take Jake Ryan ? If so, then you're philosophy concept has merit and the Packers scouts & front office need to figure out why they whiffed so badly.

But if you look at who was on the board at that spot, there really weren't any Ryan Shaziers available. Look at where Datone was selected, who was the better DL on the board at that spot ? You can't draft from an imaginary deck filled with superior athletes/players.

With the benefit of hindsight, who did the Packers miss out on when they selected Rollins, Ryan, Datone, Lowry, Fackrell and others ?

http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/teams/packers

Same challenge to you CWood....Worthy clearly wasn't worthy - but who was ? ( Devon Still was the other DT in consideration per Trgo, and Still flamed out in Cinci)

Kyler Fackrell was the 88th pick in the 2016 draft.  The next 4 LBs taken were:

Joe Schobert (from WI) to the Browns, pick 99

Joshua Perry to the Chargers, pick 102

BJ Goodson to the Giants, pick 109

Nick Kwiatkowski to the Bears, pick 113

I don’t know anything about any of them and that’s where I was hoping for some insight from others. Are these guys SparQ heroes ? Are they superior football players ? Would they have been a wiser/better choices, but TT's alleged philosophy shift caused the Packers to miss out ?

"You can't win with players you don't have" (Pettine quote) 

"You can't draft players who aren't available"   (Wolf quote)

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14 minutes ago, SSG said:

Why does the Jerel Worthy pick get you?  He was a dominate force in one of the major college football conferences over multiple seasons.  Injuries were his biggest issue IMO.  He tore his ACL in the final game of his rookie season (which wasn't a terrible season) which slowed him his sophomore season.  In the off-season of his sophomore season he jacked up his back which required surgery.  

IMO he wasn't a bad pick rather just bad luck.  As a prospect, he had substantially more upside than either Thorton or Fackrell both of whom were WTH? type of picks (IMO).  Two of the oldest prospects in their class that offered little to no upside.  

Because he was a snap jumper in college, and that doesn't translate to the NFL.  Add on the fact that he was limited physically, and that was a guy that was overrated, myself included.  I'd rather gamble on someone who has the physical skillset, but was a bit rough around the edges.

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