2018 Free Agency - Prospects for GB

[MacReady]

Just now, Packerraymond said:

Something that magically disappears from the 1 yardline to the red zone?

How do you explain his lack of touchdowns?  Are you attributing it to Ryan?  Can't.  Ryan is better than Dalton, lesser receivers score more touchdowns with lesser quarterbacks, so it can't be Ryan.  Are you blaming luck?  That's 6 years of bad luck.  Davante Adams tripled Julio's TD output in less time with Hundley. 

To me, your only argument is bad luck or Ryan.  If you want to believe it's luck, that's fine.  Can't argue that.  If you want to use Ryan, I've proven that theory wrong with lesser receivers playing with lesser quarterbacks who have been capable of doubling Julio's output.  So your only option really is coaching or luck.  If it's coaching, I've got lesser coaching and lesser receivers for you, too. 

So just say you think it's bad luck and we'll end this. 

[Packerraymond]

6 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

How do you explain his lack of touchdowns?  Are you attributing it to Ryan?  Can't.  Ryan is better than Dalton, lesser receivers score more touchdowns with lesser quarterbacks, so it can't be Ryan.  Are you blaming luck?  That's 6 years of bad luck.  Davante Adams tripled Julio's TD output in less time with Hundley. 

To me, your only argument is bad luck or Ryan.  If you want to believe it's luck, that's fine.  Can't argue that.  If you want to use Ryan, I've proven that theory wrong with lesser receivers playing with lesser quarterbacks who have been capable of doubling Julio's output.  So your only option really is coaching or luck.  If it's coaching, I've got lesser coaching and lesser receivers for you, too. 

So just say you think it's bad luck and we'll end this. 

There is no explanation. Sometimes there are stats that exist you can't point to and say "that's the reason there." 

Julio has an elite release, elite hands, 4.4 speed and a 40 inch vert. That doesn't disappear in the redzone, or anywhere else on the field. I don't mind you saying Brown is better, that's a horse a piece to me, so Julio is the 2nd best WR. He's still on pace for a 1st ballot HOF career. He's still physically as gifted as any WR that has ever played or will play in this league. There is nothing to suggest that he becomes a worse player in the red zone.

My causation? Less field leaves less room for him to work, a combination of coverages focusing on him, Ryan's inaccuracies, and the fact that ATL has always had a solid run game have attributed to less TDs for Julio.

It's far less crazy for me to believe it's simply bad luck than to say a guy who has no real weaknesses as a WR, suddenly develops a weakness, but only around the endzone.

[MacReady]

Odell - 35 touchdowns, 1374 yards in his last three healthy years.  Eli Manning.

Julio - 17 touchdowns, 1574 yards in his last three healthy years.  Matt Ryan. 

Rank quarterbacks, please.  Who is better, Eli or Matt? 

Over three years, would you rather have 108 extra points or 600 extra yards?  That's 108 points, or 600 yards. 

Green - 29 touchdowns, 1267 yards in his last three healthy years.  Andy Dalton. 

Julio - 17 touchdowns, 1574 yards in his last three healthy years.  Matt Ryan. 

Rank quarterbacks.  Andy, Matt?

Over three years, 72 points or 900 yards? 

Fitzgerald (30 plus years old) - 21 touchdowns, 1131 yards in his last three healthy years.  Who in the actual hell even were his QBs? 

Julio - 17 touchdowns, 1574 yards in his last three healthy years.  Matt Ryan. 

Rank quarterbacks.  Matt Ryan, or who the Cardinals have had over the past three years. 

How do you even explain that?  Larry Fitzgerald has had Barkley, Gabbert and Palmer at 30-34 years old and he's still done better.

You don't want me to do Brown. 

[MacReady]

Just now, Packerraymond said:

It's far less crazy for me to believe it's simply bad luck than to say a guy who has no real weaknesses as a WR, suddenly develops a weakness, but only around the endzone.

You're smarter than that and you know it.  I can point to zero physical weakness receivers who were out of the NFL in five years with better quarterbacks.  There's something there.  Deep down you know it.  You keep using his physical abilities and that's preposterous.  If physical ability was the only element, there would be a lot more Hall of Fame receivers. 

You keep using physical ability and the red zone.  He scored 3 total touchdowns last year.  There are 80 yards before the red zone. 

There's more to it than bad luck and you know it and I'm not the ridiculous one.  Julio struggles to score points compared to his peers while his peers have had equal or lesser quarterbacks.  He is not the best receiver in the league. 

[Packerraymond]

3 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Odell - 35 touchdowns, 1374 yards in his last three healthy years.  Eli Manning.

Julio - 17 touchdowns, 1574 yards in his last three healthy years.  Matt Ryan. 

Rank quarterbacks, please.  Who is better, Eli or Matt? 

Over three years, would you rather have 108 extra points or 600 extra yards?  That's 108 points, or 600 yards. 

Green - 29 touchdowns, 1267 yards in his last three healthy years.  Andy Dalton. 

Julio - 17 touchdowns, 1574 yards in his last three healthy years.  Matt Ryan. 

Rank quarterbacks.  Andy, Matt?

Over three years, 72 points or 900 yards? 

Fitzgerald (30 plus years old) - 21 touchdowns, 1131 yards in his last three healthy years.  Who in the actual hell even were his QBs? 

Julio - 17 touchdowns, 1574 yards in his last three healthy years.  Matt Ryan. 

Rank quarterbacks.  Matt Ryan, or who the Cardinals have had over the past three years. 

How do you even explain that?  Larry Fitzgerald has had Barkley, Gabbert and Palmer at 30-34 years old and he's still done better.

You don't want me to do Brown. 

Stop with the QBs please, it's such a poor argument. You saw the video of Julio's red zone targets of 2017. They looked like Hundley was throwing the ball, does that make Ryan as good as Hundley? Matt Ryan threw 530 passes last year and targeted Jones in the redzone with 18 of them. 3%. Are there 3% of passes last year that Brett Hundley threw better than Rodgers would've? I'm sure, because we're talking about a tiny sample size.

[squire12]

Things I learned in the last few pages

--WR are the only players that can score TD for teams

--James Jones was a better WR than Julio Jones because he scored more TD

--training camp needs to start ASAP

[Packerraymond]

4 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

You're smarter than that and you know it.  I can point to zero physical weakness receivers who were out of the NFL in five years with better quarterbacks.  There's something there.  Deep down you know it.  You keep using his physical abilities and that's preposterous.  If physical ability was the only element, there would be a lot more Hall of Fame receivers. 

You keep using physical ability and the red zone.  He scored 3 total touchdowns last year.  There are 80 yards before the red zone. 

There's more to it than bad luck and you know it and I'm not the ridiculous one.  Julio struggles to score points compared to his peers while his peers have had equal or lesser quarterbacks.  He is not the best receiver in the league. 

You keep pestering me on the bad luck thing, if there's such a blantant issue than tell me what it is. If I can't find a good reason and you can't find one, that seems to point to bad luck eh?

[MacReady]

Just now, squire12 said:

James Jones was a better WR than Julio Jones because he scored more TD

Grow up.  It's so old here to read people put words in my mouth.  I never said that and you know it.  I used Jones to show that lesser receivers with lesser quarterbacks have done better at scoring points. 

[MacReady]

Just now, Packerraymond said:

Stop with the QBs please, it's such a poor argument. You saw the video of Julio's red zone targets of 2017. They looked like Hundley was throwing the ball, does that make Ryan as good as Hundley? Matt Ryan threw 530 passes last year and targeted Jones in the redzone with 18 of them. 3%. Are there 3% of passes last year that Brett Hundley threw better than Rodgers would've? I'm sure, because we're talking about a tiny sample size.

You tell me to stop bringing up quarterbacks and you bring up quarterbacks? 

[squire12]

Just now, Outpost31 said:

Grow up.  It's so old here to read people put words in my mouth.  I never said that and you know it.  I used Jones to show that lesser receivers with lesser quarterbacks have done better at scoring points. 

Hello kettle, pleasure to meet you

[Packerraymond]

Just now, Outpost31 said:

You tell me to stop bringing up quarterbacks and you bring up quarterbacks? 

?

I'm showing you we're comparing such a minute percentage of passes that QB comparing is pointless.

[MacReady]

Just now, Packerraymond said:

You keep pestering me on the bad luck thing, if there's such a blantant issue than tell me what it is. If I can't find a good reason and you can't find one, that seems to point to bad luck eh?

Lack of effort, lack of concentration, lack of will, lack of getting open without his speed.  One or more of the above.  How is Julio at disengaging from press coverage, which is harder the closer you get to the endzone?  It's not bad luck.  There's something there.  I don't know what it is, which is why I'm asking you.  Over six years of healthy seasons, all that physical talent, I'm suggesting it's not six seasons of bad luck.  I'm suggesting there's something there.  You're suggesting there's nothing there. 

Just look at that gif of Malcolm Butler covering Jones in the red zone.  Yeah, it was a poor throw by Ryan.  When Julio is running from one end of the field to the other, he should have been a mile ahead of Butler. 

[MacReady]

Just now, squire12 said:

Hello kettle, pleasure to meet you

Don't ever call me kettle. 

 

Just now, Packerraymond said:

I'm showing you we're comparing such a minute percentage of passes that QB comparing is pointless.

I'm telling you that over complete seasons, receivers with lesser quarterbacks have been able to find the endzone from somewhere on the 100 yard long football field than Julio has been able to. 

It's not all about red zone.  Red zone keeps coming back up, but how is it that Julio scored 3 total touchdowns last season?  How is it that with Brett Hundley, Davante Adams (in less games) was able to double Julio's TD production? 

[MacReady]

@Packerraymond, if Julio has less than 6 touchdowns this season, you get to post,

Quote

Outpost31 actually isn't an idiot and a lot of his hot takes are legitimate and make sense if you actually take the time to consider them instead of passing them off like people passed off the Earth revolving around the sun, the Earth not being flat, etc.  Receivers should never be taken in the top 30 of the draft, interior offensive linemen should never be taken in the top 32 of the draft, there's something more than bad luck with Jones and his endzone woes, we should probably trade Rodgers, and I'm way too grumpy towards views that I want to believe in just because I'm stubborn.

 

[blankman0021]

1 hour ago, squire12 said:

Hello kettle, pleasure to meet you

 

1 hour ago, Outpost31 said:

Don't ever call me kettle.