e16bball Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 For better than a week now, I’ve been trying to figure out what feels familiar about this Alex Smith trade. Why it is that, despite myself, I’m finding myself intrigued by what this QB and HC will be able to do together. I finally just figured it out. And it takes me all the way back to an unheralded FA signing that happened when I was 14, in the 1999 offseason. That offseason, a 33-year-old journeyman QB left the Kansas City Chiefs and signed elsewhere. He was known for being smart and mobile and tough, and he’d compiled a winning career record. But he didn’t have a strong arm and he’d never won a playoff game, and people generally viewed him as “mediocre.” At best. In all of his previous stops, he’d been replaced by bigger names with more flash — an aging Jim McMahon, a promising Elvis Grbac, and a hotshot rookie known only as QB#5. But in that 1999 offseason, he joined forces with an offensive guru, a west coast offense disciple who had a way with QBs. Who could take a smart QB with mediocre tools and turn him into a machine. And that coach found something that no one else had seen in our journeyman QB — a multi-time All-Pro, an MVP, and a Super Bowl Champion. That QB/HC duo, of course, was Rich Gannon and Jon Gruden. One of the things that kept me feeling remotely positive about trading for Alex Smith was the way I’d always noticed Jon Gruden raving about him whenever he announced one of Smith’s games. And honestly, I really never understood it. But now I think I do. I think he saw a lot of Rich Gannon in Smith’s game. Will history repeat itself? Probably not. But I have to admit, thinking about this comparison has me pretty damn intrigued. I’ve always thought that what Cousins really lacked was the elite-level intelligence and instincts that would have allowed him to achieve true mastery of our system. We now have a QB in Smith whose mental game is on that legitimately elite level. And his track record and physical tools both probably exceed Gannon’s at the same point in their respective careers. Can he make a leap like Gannon did with Jay’s brother? ...so, how crazy am I coming off here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Woz told me Gannon had a strong arm when I said there are similarities between Gannon and Mccoy, I think he’s wrong but I love your thought process E. I’m with you. I think Smith has a strong arm but not elite arm, I don’t think there’s any doubt his arm strength is better than Gannon’s. We need to continue to build this team well through the draft. Hopefully we get a starting NT & RB in round 1 and 2 of this draft and have our young picks and free agents from the last few years step up and play to their talent levels and hopefully we fill a few holes in FA like WR, LG and re-sign Brown. We need these things to happen to take the next step for this team to go from mediocre to good. One thing that will help is less turnovers, the acquisition of Smith should cut our turnovers in half which his detractors are failing to acknowledge will be a big deal towards winning games. Possessing the ball is very key to winning games, we got an improvement in that category when we traded for Smith. Its nice to have you and footy back, the 24-7 negativity that spues from this forum usually really makes hard to be here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeezy Fanatic Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Alex Smith trying to throw open Ryan Grant is basically my hell. I'm with turtle though, I'm glad there's some positivity back on the board, otherwise, where would I post my schtick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 33 minutes ago, Jeezy Fanatic said: Alex Smith trying to throw open Ryan Grant is basically my hell. I'm with turtle though, I'm glad there's some positivity back on the board, otherwise, where would I post my schtick. If Ryan Grant is a starter for 16 games he’s likely to even be better than he was last year. Remember, he didn’t exactly get starters reps all season. As I’ve maintained for 3 offseaons, Grant isn’t special in any way but he’s a steady eddie. There’s nothing to say that Grant can’t have 50 recs, 600 yards and 5 TDs. I think most Qbs find someone like Grant reliable. He’s usually where he’s supposed to be and makes tough catches - usually - of course he’s not perfect. He’s not a burner, he’s a crafty possession WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostnote Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 14 minutes ago, turtle28 said: If Ryan Grant is a starter for 16 games he’s likely to even be better than he was last year. Remember, he didn’t exactly get starters reps all season. As I’ve maintained for 3 offseaons, Grant isn’t special in any way but he’s a steady eddie. There’s nothing to say that Grant can’t have 50 recs, 600 yards and 5 TDs. I think most Qbs find someone like Grant reliable. He’s usually where he’s supposed to be and makes tough catches - usually - of course he’s not perfect. He’s not a burner, he’s a crafty possession WR. Well, I had thought the reliable one would have been Jamison Crowder, but he was down last season. I have come to accept Grant over the last year. Not super fast, but gets open. Has really worked on his catching. His biggest issue, which needs to be addressed, is being that go to guy when you need 4 yards and he gets you 5. Right now, he gets you 3. Recognizing the sticks and staying beyond them. That is what his game has to be. Otherwise, I don't see anything that a younger WR cant do like Maurice Harris. 7 hours ago, e16bball said: But in that 1999 offseason, he joined forces with an offensive guru, a west coast offense disciple who had a way with QBs. Who could take a smart QB with mediocre tools and turn him into a machine. And that coach found something that no one else had seen in our journeyman QB — a multi-time All-Pro, an MVP, and a Super Bowl Champion. That QB/HC duo, of course, was Rich Gannon and Jon Gruden. So E...it seems that your history is off a bit, Rich Gannon never won the Superbowl. He went with the Raiders, but ended throwing 5 INT's (a record) and 3 TD's in the losing effort. AFC Champion (2002) 4× Pro Bowl (1999–2002) 2× First-team All-Pro (2000, 2002) Pro Bowl MVP (2001, 2002) NFL MVP (2002) 3× AFC Player of the Year (2000–2002) 2× AFC Offensive Player of the Year (2000, 2002) 2× Bert Bell Award (2000, 2002) NFL passing yards leader (2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSkinGM Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 I started to post that Smith could be better here than his other stops because he has a Quarterback whisperer / Guru for a H C--BUT. I didn't want to give Doc apoplexy .! I surely think Gruden will craft the passing game to his strengths and conversely I'm curious to see Cousins without Gruden . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 33 minutes ago, mike23md said: Well, I had thought the reliable one would have been Jamison Crowder, but he was down last season. I have come to accept Grant over the last year. Not super fast, but gets open. Has really worked on his catching. His biggest issue, which needs to be addressed, is being that go to guy when you need 4 yards and he gets you 5. Right now, he gets you 3. Recognizing the sticks and staying beyond them. That is what his game has to be. Otherwise, I don't see anything that a younger WR cant do like Maurice Harris. So E...it seems that your history is off a bit, Rich Gannon never won the Superbowl. He went with the Raiders, but ended throwing 5 INT's (a record) and 3 TD's in the losing effort. AFC Champion (2002) 4× Pro Bowl (1999–2002) 2× First-team All-Pro (2000, 2002) Pro Bowl MVP (2001, 2002) NFL MVP (2002) 3× AFC Player of the Year (2000–2002) 2× AFC Offensive Player of the Year (2000, 2002) 2× Bert Bell Award (2000, 2002) NFL passing yards leader (2002) Let me be clear, I’d rather have a vet upgrade and GRant as the #4 but if it happens to be grant so be it. also, I’m hopeful our returning players stay healthy and perform even better than last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e16bball Posted February 9, 2018 Author Share Posted February 9, 2018 7 hours ago, mike23md said: Well, I had thought the reliable one would have been Jamison Crowder, but he was down last season. I have come to accept Grant over the last year. Not super fast, but gets open. Has really worked on his catching. His biggest issue, which needs to be addressed, is being that go to guy when you need 4 yards and he gets you 5. Right now, he gets you 3. Recognizing the sticks and staying beyond them. That is what his game has to be. Otherwise, I don't see anything that a younger WR cant do like Maurice Harris. So E...it seems that your history is off a bit, Rich Gannon never won the Superbowl. He went with the Raiders, but ended throwing 5 INT's (a record) and 3 TD's in the losing effort. AFC Champion (2002) 4× Pro Bowl (1999–2002) 2× First-team All-Pro (2000, 2002) Pro Bowl MVP (2001, 2002) NFL MVP (2002) 3× AFC Player of the Year (2000–2002) 2× AFC Offensive Player of the Year (2000, 2002) 2× Bert Bell Award (2000, 2002) NFL passing yards leader (2002) Well damn, how about that? I was sure of that. But of course now it makes perfect sense. Good catch, mike! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 15 hours ago, e16bball said: For better than a week now, I’ve been trying to figure out what feels familiar about this Alex Smith trade. Why it is that, despite myself, I’m finding myself intrigued by what this QB and HC will be able to do together. I finally just figured it out. And it takes me all the way back to an unheralded FA signing that happened when I was 14, in the 1999 offseason. That offseason, a 33-year-old journeyman QB left the Kansas City Chiefs and signed elsewhere. He was known for being smart and mobile and tough, and he’d compiled a winning career record. But he didn’t have a strong arm and he’d never won a playoff game, and people generally viewed him as “mediocre.” At best. In all of his previous stops, he’d been replaced by bigger names with more flash — an aging Jim McMahon, a promising Elvis Grbac, and a hotshot rookie known only as QB#5. But in that 1999 offseason, he joined forces with an offensive guru, a west coast offense disciple who had a way with QBs. Who could take a smart QB with mediocre tools and turn him into a machine. And that coach found something that no one else had seen in our journeyman QB — a multi-time All-Pro, an MVP, and a Super Bowl Champion. That QB/HC duo, of course, was Rich Gannon and Jon Gruden. One of the things that kept me feeling remotely positive about trading for Alex Smith was the way I’d always noticed Jon Gruden raving about him whenever he announced one of Smith’s games. And honestly, I really never understood it. But now I think I do. I think he saw a lot of Rich Gannon in Smith’s game. Will history repeat itself? Probably not. But I have to admit, thinking about this comparison has me pretty damn intrigued. I’ve always thought that what Cousins really lacked was the elite-level intelligence and instincts that would have allowed him to achieve true mastery of our system. We now have a QB in Smith whose mental game is on that legitimately elite level. And his track record and physical tools both probably exceed Gannon’s at the same point in their respective careers. Can he make a leap like Gannon did with Jay’s brother? ...so, how crazy am I coming off here? I'm liking your optimism. And frankly, there's really nothing we can do but complain about the moves. But at the end of the day, he;s still gonna be here. So I'm hoping he succeeds and your gut feeling is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldman9er Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 16 hours ago, e16bball said: ...so, how crazy am I coming off here? Not crazy. I am thrilled to see at least a few Redskins fans here that are not standing on the ledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 We've all seen this song and dance from this team before. It didn't work with Jeff George, Mark Brunell or Donovan McNabb. This isn't going to work either and we'll win 6-7 games and then they'll start putting out hit pieces on Alex Smith. Should've just traded Kirk last year, drafted a QB this year and saved Fuller, our third round pick and the cap space. But whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dashing202 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 16 hours ago, turtle28 said: Woz told me Gannon had a strong arm when I said there are similarities between Gannon and Mccoy, I think he’s wrong but I love your thought process E. I’m with you. I think Smith has a strong arm but not elite arm, I don’t think there’s any doubt his arm strength is better than Gannon’s. We need to continue to build this team well through the draft. Hopefully we get a starting NT & RB in round 1 and 2 of this draft and have our young picks and free agents from the last few years step up and play to their talent levels and hopefully we fill a few holes in FA like WR, LG and re-sign Brown. We need these things to happen to take the next step for this team to go from mediocre to good. One thing that will help is less turnovers, the acquisition of Smith should cut our turnovers in half which his detractors are failing to acknowledge will be a big deal towards winning games. Possessing the ball is very key to winning games, we got an improvement in that category when we traded for Smith. Its nice to have you and footy back, the 24-7 negativity that spues from this forum usually really makes hard to be here. I think woz is wrong as well about the Gannon- McCoy comparison . but Gannon is much much better than McCoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dashing202 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Alex smith has a good arm . He wasnt the first pick for nothing . His issue was he never took chances down the field . that whole him having a noodle arm is complete BS. I don't think people know what a noodle arm is which is basically what chad Pennington is . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldman9er Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 I think the shoulder injury of 2007 and subsequent botching of said shoulder discovered in 2008 took some zip out of his arm... but it's still above average/noodle. B grade arm for a B grade QB, frankly. The only thing that was/is keeping 2012+ Alex from being an A grade QB is... Alex Smith (composure). The early years were very unkind. He was badly abused by some terribad OLs and coaching. Some levels of PTSD are hard to completely break free of. This is why I suggest that putting a great OL in front of him is far more important than the weapons. Aside from the pocket composure angle.. I think the Andy Reid + Alex combo was effective but a bit hindering at the same time. Alex developed a conservative approach, and Andy's philosophy fed him more helpings of conservative through 2013-2016. Lean on run game and defense to a fault. To be fair, Andy Reid didn't really have the worthwhile deep weapons or pass pro OL for anything else. This team had been well built on spending high resources on defense. Bowe was washed up, and the rest were completely forgettable, except for a baby Kelce. And who would blame anyone for throwing short passes to Jamaal Charles and watch him work YAC in a YAC system??? Moving onto 2017, Tyreek Hill was developing into his next year as a polished weapon. Then enter Matt Nagy, and well, this was by far the best thing to happen for Alex Smith. The "dink-n-dunk" QB that couldn't throw downfield gave all his detractors a big ole middle finger by leading the League as a deep passer. The injuries to OL during that rough patch of 2017 reared its head... as did a predictability to scheme... so I can only imagine how much better it could have been. I hope Jay Gruden proves to be a wise coach, and they can have less attention from the injury bug. Anyway, more babbling. A good weekend to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Draper Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 I love the "positive waves Moriariy" and hope they come true. I too recall Gannon having a cannon for an arm and was a very good deep ball thrower. Smith and Gannon are similar in they are both mobile and considered strong leaders. Just for information, Gannon in KC had interception rates of 1.1, 1,7, 2.3% where in DC he was a much higher 5.6% because he pushed the ball downfield here. Lastly, lets stop with the Jon and Jay comparisons. Jon is a tough guy, practices hard, gets in people faces, holds teams to being excellent, where as Jay is just the opposite. Brothers from other Mothers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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