Raiders Training Camp MegaThread 2017

[Silver&Black88]

Just now, MrOaktown_56 said:

The spin on Luani coming out was that he was athletic and could make plays on the ball, but couldn't tackle consistently. If he can get that cleaned up, he might even have utility as a backup safety.

But really, I'm thinking he could be a 3rd safety for us if he pans out. In passing sets if we play Obi closer to the line, we can play Borders or Luani at the other S spot after Nelson retires if they pan out.  The bottom of our roster has me giddy for our future depth outside of LB

[MrOaktown_56]

2 minutes ago, Silver&Black88 said:

But really, I'm thinking he could be a 3rd safety for us if he pans out. In passing sets if we play Obi closer to the line, we can play Borders or Luani at the other S spot after Nelson retires if they pan out.  The bottom of our roster has me giddy for our future depth outside of LB

I really hope JDR and RM know what they're doing regarding LB. If Foster is a stud this year and Conley for some reason stays injured and doesn't play, I'm gonna throw a fit.

[RaidersAreOne]

I follow Conley on Instagram and his story is "Get to run today for the first time in two months", then of him doing some jogging. So it looks like he is getting better and could practice sometime soon.

[Silver&Black88]

On 8/12/2017 at 1:25 PM, MrOaktown_56 said:

I really hope JDR and RM know what they're doing regarding LB. If Foster is a stud this year and Conley for some reason stays injured and doesn't play, I'm gonna throw a fit.

I'm not.  I'm not the biggest JDR fan in the world but he and Reggie have earned some slack. Not to mention our backend clearly needs a shot in the arm (Hi Sean Smith) and Conley fits our CB mold to a tee.  Further, Foster appears to already be some kind of a head case (combine incident) and he hasn't even played a down in the regular season.  Oh.  And by the way.  The whole other reason for Foster's stock plummeting?  His injured shoulder.  There was doubt he'd play this year at one point.  Not to nitpick, but yeah.

 

I will say Jarrad Davis was high on my list for prospects I wanted though.

[MrOaktown_56]

8 minutes ago, Silver&Black88 said:

I'm not.  I'm not the biggest JDR fan in the world but he and Reggie have earned some slack. Not to mention our backend clearly needs a shot in the arm (Hi Sean Smith) and Conley fits our CB mold to a tee.  Further, Foster appears to already be some kind of a head case (combine incident) and he hasn't even played a down in the regular season.  Oh.  And by the way.  The whole other reason for Foster's stock plummeting?  His injured shoulder.  There was doubt he'd play this year at one point.  Not to nitpick, but yeah.

 

I will say Jarrad Davis was high on my list for prospects I wanted though.

I do like Conley a lot. Like a lot. I'm just worried that he won't be available, although it seems like JDR has cleared that up. I hold Mckenzie to a pretty high standard because he's capable of being the best GM in the NFL. JDR is average to mediocre.

I'm still wondering how the medical could have been this bad on Foster that he dropped so far. What did teams see in his shoulder. Because apparently, if the offseason is any evidence (which it very well may not be), he's patrick Willis 2.0 and it's really been rubbing me the wrong way. And he fits a 4-3, especially the kind we run

I will say that I'm really happy that Reggie picked Obi and Conley and didn't get cute. The only pick I've really objected to in the last 2 years is Ward. It's really really early, but I just don't see it turning out well.

The LB position is a massive risk though. For a super bowl contending team to not even want to spend 3.5 mil on Zach Brown on a one year deal is eye-opening to me.

[Silver&Black88]

18 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

I do like Conley a lot. Like a lot. I'm just worried that he won't be available, although it seems like JDR has cleared that up. I hold Mckenzie to a pretty high standard because he's capable of being the best GM in the NFL. JDR is average to mediocre.

I'm still wondering how the medical could have been this bad on Foster that he dropped so far. What did teams see in his shoulder. Because apparently, if the offseason is any evidence (which it very well may not be), he's patrick Willis 2.0 and it's really been rubbing me the wrong way. And he fits a 4-3, especially the kind we run

I will say that I'm really happy that Reggie picked Obi and Conley and didn't get cute. The only pick I've really objected to in the last 2 years is Ward. It's really really early, but I just don't see it turning out well.

The LB position is a massive risk though. For a super bowl contending team to not even want to spend 3.5 mil on Zach Brown on a one year deal is eye-opening to me.

Well, it was blatantly obvious our staff felt we really needed to strengthen our DBs at the end of last season.  And you know our FO in particular had to be drooling over Obi & Conley.  So I can't complain there.  It was bitterly apparent even yesterday that Nelson and Smith aren't going to be studs this year.   Amerson can be alright.  Still intrigued by Borders and Luani going forward.  You can say RMK got cute with the Conley pick though considering those allegations.

 

On Foster: I'm fine with allocating resources (aka the 1st round pick) on a CB over an ILB. He could have been great for us but as I said, there's just enough red flags for me to stay away.  Rumors of drug use in college, along with the diluted sample at the Combine.  The previously alluded to handling of said combine incident.  His shoulder.  I prefer LBs a bit more rangy personally (hence advocating for Davis, Kendricks, Anthony, etc the past few years) although it seems our team does not.

 

I don't disagree that LB will be a sore spot but its evident McKenzie does not value the position very highly.  And/or he and his coaches (the former LBs) believe they can find diamonds in the rough and coach em up.  Not the worst plan, but you need some insurance.  Brown would have been nice but he visited teams and walked away without a contract many times for one offseason.  Not going to put that one squarely on us.  There were other options though.  Riley still doesn't have a team yet (lol).  What bothers me more is that we didn't learn from the youth experiment at CB a few years back.  The DJ & TJ combo.

[RaidersAreOne]

Just to add to the conversation about Foster vs Conley. I think good CB's are much harder to find and ultimately more important to the success of a team than MLBs. So from purely a positional value standpoint, Conley over Foster is a given imo. Foster had a lot of baggage surrounding him whereas Conley only had the bogus allegations predraft. I fully supported the pick then and support it even more now.

[MrOaktown_56]

Fair enough. I'm a pessimist at heart, but it's good to see that you guys are optimistic about where this is headed.

Still, I can't imagine why a GM, coach, and DC who were all linebackers continue to struggle to develop anyone at linebacker. It seems so unlikely.

[daineraider]

8 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Fair enough. I'm a pessimist at heart, but it's good to see that you guys are optimistic about where this is headed.

Still, I can't imagine why a GM, coach, and DC who were all linebackers continue to struggle to develop anyone at linebacker. It seems so unlikely.

I'm on your side of this argument.  I think Conley can be a really good CB, but I feel Foster could have added a nasty dynamic to our D.  Nobody fears our LBs and with Foster that could have changed.  Although with the way Smith has been playing the Conley pick looks better and better(if he can ever see the field).

The one I was less excited about was Obi.  I know it's not popular, but other than being a crazy athletic and tall safety, I just haven't seen much on tape that excites me.  I would have preferred McMillan or Cunningham with that pick.  

I hope I end up wrong and Reggie made the right picks, but only time will tell.  I won't be too negative until LB proves to be a weak spot.  I'm hoping the guys on the team step up and make me worry less about the position.

[big_palooka]

Even in drills, Smith foot speed looks labored. He's just not changing direction like he used to. And that was never his strength 

[NightTrainLane]

On 8/13/2017 at 3:03 PM, MrOaktown_56 said:

Fair enough. I'm a pessimist at heart, but it's good to see that you guys are optimistic about where this is headed.

Still, I can't imagine why a GM, coach, and DC who were all linebackers continue to struggle to develop anyone at linebacker. It seems so unlikely.

To be fair to them I think they have developed lbs when they had the chance. Injuries have just derailed alot of that progress.

JDR and crew got here in 2015 and the rookies were Heeney and Ball. Developing players were Mack, M.Smith, Alexander and Toomer. Ball and Heeney both looked good til they had serious time missed to injuries. and the others developed very well. We can argue about Smith and Heeney performance or production but both were starters til injuries and remained there over guys that went on to other teams and played well.

Last year, we added James, Cowser, Bates (got paid) and Adams. I think all have taken steps forward and I expect better things this yr from them. Now we have Lee and Jenkins(whether he is here long term is a question) and I expect the same trend to continue. I just hope these guys get to stay healthy and show the growth.

 

 

[big_palooka]

On 8/14/2017 at 2:14 AM, daineraider said:

I'm on your side of this argument.  I think Conley can be a really good CB, but I feel Foster could have added a nasty dynamic to our D.  Nobody fears our LBs and with Foster that could have changed.  Although with the way Smith has been playing the Conley pick looks better and better(if he can ever see the field).

The one I was less excited about was Obi.  I know it's not popular, but other than being a crazy athletic and tall safety, I just haven't seen much on tape that excites me.  I would have preferred McMillan or Cunningham with that pick.  

I hope I end up wrong and Reggie made the right picks, but only time will tell.  I won't be too negative until LB proves to be a weak spot.  I'm hoping the guys on the team step up and make me worry less about the position.

I agree. Obi didn't excite me. Cunningham was there. I wanted Cupp or Kamara just because I think they will be good players. But realistically Anzalone or Cunningham looked like better fits.

[MrOaktown_56]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

I agree. Obi didn't excite me. Cunningham was there. I wanted Cupp or Kamara just because I think they will be good players. But realistically Anzalone or Cunningham looked like better fits.

Anzalone would have gone in the 2nd if his injury history wasn't so iffy. As a player, I liked him a lot.

Still, if Obi erases tight ends this year (remains to be seen because he isn't even on the field), it'll be hard to complain.

[daineraider]

1 hour ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Anzalone would have gone in the 2nd if his injury history wasn't so iffy. As a player, I liked him a lot.

Still, if Obi erases tight ends this year (remains to be seen because he isn't even on the field), it'll be hard to complain.

Obviously now that Obi is here I am hoping for the best, but up to and during the draft I was hoping we went elsewhere.  Now I hope he proves me wrong.  Just like I hope Conley outplays Foster(albeit at different positions).

[Silver&Black88]

5 hours ago, big_palooka said:

On 8/13/2017 at 11:14 PM, daineraider said:

I'm on your side of this argument.  I think Conley can be a really good CB, but I feel Foster could have added a nasty dynamic to our D.  Nobody fears our LBs and with Foster that could have changed.  Although with the way Smith has been playing the Conley pick looks better and better(if he can ever see the field).

The one I was less excited about was Obi.  I know it's not popular, but other than being a crazy athletic and tall safety, I just haven't seen much on tape that excites me.  I would have preferred McMillan or Cunningham with that pick.  

I hope I end up wrong and Reggie made the right picks, but only time will tell.  I won't be too negative until LB proves to be a weak spot.  I'm hoping the guys on the team step up and make me worry less about the position.

I agree. Obi didn't excite me. Cunningham was there. I wanted Cupp or Kamara just because I think they will be good players. But realistically Anzalone or Cunningham looked like better fits.

 

Well, yeah.  You had it in for Obi from the start.  I liked Kupp as a 3rd rounder, Kamara was intriguing. @daineraider its really not about taking sides.  For round 2 it was any of Obi, McMillan, or Cunningham for me. Can't deny that S would have been the sore spot otherwise though.  Maybe I didn't know the class well enough though.