BDL Discussion Thread 2018

[TedLavie]

1 hour ago, WFLukic said:

When's tank?

Usually it starts on after the 3rd preseason game I believe. So in two weeks I guess

[TedLavie]

4 hours ago, ny92mike said:

Those in charge of updating the workbooks, if you guys need any help with it let me know.  Don't have a lot going on right now and I'm looking for something to keep me busy.

 

For now we're doing fine. Worksheet is working well and pretty simple to update.

There's going to be a lot of maintenance to do to update the players list and integrate all the rookies that made it to final rosters / practice squads. I think we should do it by the end of preseason. Your Google sheets skills might come in handy when that time comes

[ny92mike]

1 hour ago, TedLavie said:

For now we're doing fine. Worksheet is working well and pretty simple to update.

There's going to be a lot of maintenance to do to update the players list and integrate all the rookies that made it to final rosters / practice squads. I think we should do it by the end of preseason. Your Google sheets skills might come in handy when that time comes

Yeah man, just let me know.  More than happy to help and share the knowledge.

[SirA1]

On 8/8/2018 at 1:06 PM, Ragnarok said:

We have always done those meetings to apply the year after.

I view this as trying to loophole that.  If you resign Hunter this year, it should be at 85%.  Im looking at calendar year of when the deal would be inked, not the year attached to that 3Up tag.

False. Topics 1, 3, 4 and 4a are all applying to the 2018 season. Only Topic 2, which has now been replaced was going to go into effect in 2019.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1feTqcetrf_PUk17jVcenO_gZD2nhaQ4rRrxDp0VDL-o/edit

On 8/9/2018 at 1:52 AM, Ragnarok said:

I'm objecting to the Danielle Hunter being approved on the current terms because I, and evidently others, had assumed that the rule change would take effect next calendar year.  Not immediately due to the 3Ups being 2019 3Ups.  At the least, I would like @Jlash, @MD4L, and @bcb1213 to comment on this aspect before the deal goes through.

If nothing else, that should have been clarified during discussion of the rule change.  I think that when this would go into effect should be determined.  If the majority agree with @SirA1's POV, then that's fine.  If not, then 75% 3Ups should have to wait one calendar year.  

My preference would be that we vote on if the 75% aspect starts right away or next calendar year.  I'm not arguing the discount to 75%, just when it starts and feel like that should be clarified via vote as it was nowhere near clear when the vote took place.

 

I still don't understand where you are getting this One Calendar Year implementation from. That would mean everything we just voted on wouldn't go into effect until 2020 because a Calendar year would be July 2019. Next season for a lot of the stuff was implied because we changed the fundamental rules for things that could only happen next year. 

On 8/9/2018 at 11:41 AM, MD4L said:

I was contemplating removing myself from the approvals list. There’s merit to suggest teams should be forced to wait the calendar year before things like this go for approval.

The important thing here is SirA had the cap space to afford a substantial contract offer which increased Hunter’s salary significantly. The $9k salary makes the deal seem like a massive bargain but I attribute that to Hunter’s deal being included in the proposal.

The only reason is is so cheap is because I am being forced to use $8.5K of this years salary cap on a year round 3 up to avoid the Pheltz Penalty clause for rookies. I'm actually paying Hunter more over 6 years than he would get over 5 years along with the Pheltz penalty if I had to wait so the only thing it would penalize is my cap space.

On 8/9/2018 at 1:35 PM, TedLavie said:

No it doesn't. SirA 3up is counting now. 

The year round thing is a non issue for me and I don't get why it's being argued on. The 75% rule being applied now is the real issue. Had SirA used the 85% percentage nobody would argue on this.

I believe the 75% rule should be applied when next season 3ups open (hence after 2019 FA).

If it is decided to indeed apply it now then every 3up proposal made (if any) this season (after 2018 FA) should be reviewed

I'm not sure if you are understanding the year round 3 Up. Once FA started this year in 2018 (May) you could no longer use the 85% 2018 3 ups. And no one has since then. All 3 Ups going forward starting with 2019 are 75% per the vote. If I had waited until December and done this no one would have batted an eye. But I didn't want to take the chance I'd overspend on Waivers and have to suffer the Pheltz Penalty. Ya'll are basically saying it is too soon to implement something we voted yes on but if everyone is going to be able to take advantage of it I don't see the issue. I'm actually hurting myself by doing this now because I have no cap space left for more than a couple of waivers and will be a non participant in the Shark Tank. But it's how I'm choosing to spend my cap.

Next Seasons 3 Ups (2019) are open now they are the only ones you can use, still limited to 3 of them until 2019 FA starts (June). After June 2019 FA then the only 3 Ups you could use would be 2020 3 Ups. 

The Year for the purposes of Year Round in 3 Ups is FA to FA so June to May normally.

On 8/10/2018 at 7:07 AM, PR said:

It isnt legal as those rules dont actually kick in until the next season. Year long at this very moment should still be 85% as the league season has not ticked over.

So why shouldn't everyone be able to benefit from rules applied to the 2019 season. What you are basically saying is that teams with Cap space this year should take a penalty for signing guys early. We made a decision to change the 3 Up discount from 85% to 75%. There wasn't a year assigned to that change because but even if there was 2019 3 Ups would be the logical place to start and I am using a 2019 3 Up. It's irrelevant IMO when that occurs because I am using my cap how I see fit this year and a large portion of it to basically pay a player more over 6 years than having to wait a year and pay them less over 5 years.

On 8/10/2018 at 7:13 AM, PR said:

Because every rule does not turn on until this season's conclusion. At this current point every 3UP would still be 85% as 2019 rules are in limbo until that season begins. It is not that season right now.

See point one under the first quote to refute this assumption. Rules aren't in Limbo. They are actually codified pretty well right now here. Including all the updates from the owners meetings.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PMWi_mLXhAdtxZF2PYBlXzqmtrQfDF1xx1v3_o8F-uA/edit

 

[MD4L]

On 8/13/2018 at 7:21 PM, TedLavie said:

Usually it starts on after the 3rd preseason game I believe. So in two weeks I guess

Friday August 24th at noon est is a good time unless people are busy on that weekend.

[TedLavie]

1 hour ago, MD4L said:

Friday August 24th at noon est is a good time unless people are busy on that weekend.

I will have 0 internet that weekend. Starting on Monday is fine

[TedLavie]

I think I've seen pretty much everyone recently except for  @SkunkApes. You still around?

Also, some of you had co-owners ( @Ragnarok, @DingoLadd and @Hockey5djh I believe). They still participating? With Shark Tank incoming, you should tell us whether your co owners will be able to make bids for you or not.

I'll allow @ny92mike to bid for Seoul during Shark Tank

[DingoLadd]

@Shady Slim is my co-owner and he's allowed to make bids for me if for some reason I'm not able to. 

So the 27th is(Probably?) shark tank? I'll keep that in mind.

Edited August 15, 2018 by DingoLadd
Reading

[Ragnarok]

@gopherwrestler is my co-owner and he can make bids.

[Hockey5djh]

@Taylor091 is my co-owner and he can make bids for the Nightmarchers.

 

[Hockey5djh]

Also did I miss something or didn't we already have the shark tank?

[Hockey5djh]

On ‎8‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 1:03 AM, SirA1 said:

False. Topics 1, 3, 4 and 4a are all applying to the 2018 season. Only Topic 2, which has now been replaced was going to go into effect in 2019.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1feTqcetrf_PUk17jVcenO_gZD2nhaQ4rRrxDp0VDL-o/edit

I still don't understand where you are getting this One Calendar Year implementation from. That would mean everything we just voted on wouldn't go into effect until 2020 because a Calendar year would be July 2019. Next season for a lot of the stuff was implied because we changed the fundamental rules for things that could only happen next year. 

See point one under the first quote to refute this assumption. Rules aren't in Limbo. They are actually codified pretty well right now here. Including all the updates from the owners meetings.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PMWi_mLXhAdtxZF2PYBlXzqmtrQfDF1xx1v3_o8F-uA/edit

 

So I'm still a relatively new guy to this league so maybe its an assumption that these rules go into place a year later but clearly I'm not the only one....at all. I do have a concern that both documents you referenced in the above post don't actually say what you're saying they do. The first document is a list of topics and votes, I'm not sure why #2 is the only one that specified year but apparently they all need to specify going forward. The second document is a very pretty Rules and Guidelines doc that you and Mike created this offseason but it doesn't address the Owners meetings at all or when there rules would take effect (I'm not sure what "first quote to refute your assumption" you're talking about).

Personally, and I'm saying this because I'm still new and don't actually know what has been done in the years before I started, I think anything that effects rosters, salary cap, or free agency should be delayed one year so owners can make proper roster preparation. For example one thing that got voted down this year was contraction of rosters from 70 to 65, If that vote got passed would anyone with a roster of 70 players be forced to cut or trade players in the next two months?

 

(Side note, I think something that would be extremely helpful for your document would be a loose calendar that explains when things happen)

[bcb1213]

1 hour ago, Hockey5djh said:

Also did I miss something or didn't we already have the shark tank?

We had free agency 

The shark tank is basically a second round of free agency with the inclusion of any rookies not currently roster ed also available 

Shark tank guys can only be signed for one season 

[SirA1]

4 hours ago, Hockey5djh said:

So I'm still a relatively new guy to this league so maybe its an assumption that these rules go into place a year later but clearly I'm not the only one....at all. I do have a concern that both documents you referenced in the above post don't actually say what you're saying they do. The first document is a list of topics and votes, I'm not sure why #2 is the only one that specified year but apparently they all need to specify going forward. The second document is a very pretty Rules and Guidelines doc that you and Mike created this offseason but it doesn't address the Owners meetings at all or when there rules would take effect (I'm not sure what "first quote to refute your assumption" you're talking about).

The title of the first document is the 2018 Owners Meeting. Which we had in Feb and you were a part of. The Rules and Guidelines document is a work in progress. I hadn't added anything about Owners meetings because the topics themselves dictate when they would take effect. If a particular year if noted then that is when they take effect,  otherwise the next time that part of the season they effected they would be the rule. What the other older owners are thinking of is 4-5 years ago when we were doing a massive new rule there would be a delay to implement it. If we are just tweaking small things then they go into effect the next time they come up.

Quote

Personally, and I'm saying this because I'm still new and don't actually know what has been done in the years before I started, I think anything that effects rosters, salary cap, or free agency should be delayed one year so owners can make proper roster preparation. For example one thing that got voted down this year was contraction of rosters from 70 to 65, If that vote got passed would anyone with a roster of 70 players be forced to cut or trade players in the next two months?

(Side note, I think something that would be extremely helpful for your document would be a loose calendar that explains when things happen)

If you look at the Roster Size change it also specifically mentions 2019 as to when that rule would take effect. 

As for anything that effects Rosters, Salary Cap of Free Agency all of the relevant rules that were voted on those topics will take place next year simply by the fact that that is the next time they occur.

2018 Summer Meeting (Asked for because people wanted to make additional changes because of the rising contracts of NFL players)

1. Trailing year Salary cap Match. Can only start in 2019 because it was replacing our earlier Cap increase for 2019 from Feb.

3. Reduce the max FA contract to 5 years. FA is done for this year so 2019 is earliest it comes into effect.

5. 2nd Round Flip of PFA Scramble. Again next year is when this is happening.

6. Increase FA Starting Bid from 40% to 50%. Again Next year is earliest for this change.

7. Reduce the Amount of 3 Up contract is based on from 85% to 75%.  This is not a Roster, Salary Cap or Free Agency change. It effect Contracts. Specifically 3 Ups of which only 2019 ones can now be used. If a team has Salary cap space to sign a player a year early then why should they be denied the ability to use the new rule now?

I agree with your idea of adding a Calendar to the Main Document. It may just take  me a bit to get it implemented. 

 

Edited August 15, 2018 by SirA1

[pheltzbahr]

26 minutes ago, SirA1 said:

 

The 3 Up period had already started when the rule was amended, this just proves that rules aren't implemented retroactively.