Greg C. Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Here's a question I've had since late in the season that I haven't heard anyone attempt to answer: Who is to blame for the Brett Hundley debacle: Ted Thompson or Mike McCarthy? I know that the short answer is Ted Thompson, because as GM he was in charge of everything, but it seems reasonable to me that he may have been deferring to McCarthy when making decisions about which backup QBs to keep. Maybe Thompson hamstrung McCarthy by keeping Hundley and not bringing another serious candidate in for the backup job (or at least keeping Taysom Hill, who clearly outplayed Hundley in the preseason). But I suspect that the backup QB situation was mostly McCarthy's doing. I'm curious to hear what others think about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 All 3 of TT MM Brett Hundley Hard to place "blame" on a players lack of own development, but some of it has to fall at the player's feet at some point. Probably should add in the OC and QB coach as well. Collective issue if you ask me. The rate of QB success/failure is high in the first few rounds of the NFL draft, so a 5th round pick not panning out is no real surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Hundley was to blame. He has shown up in preseason. He even had bright spots this season. There was no reason to think that he would play so poorly from what had been seen. But he was unable to consistently perform when full speed live games called for it. That is not on the plate of either McCarthy or Thompson. Going with Harrell was a mistake. Cutting all back-ups then signing Seneca Wallace after the preseason was a mistake. This was on the player not holding up his end of the deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 The only thing that went wrong with Hundley is home games. That's literally it. Otherwise, there was literally nothing wrong with him and he was one of the best backups in the league. If he somehow managed to fix how he performed at home, he'd continue to be fine as a backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg C. Posted February 13, 2018 Author Share Posted February 13, 2018 47 minutes ago, DavidatMIZZOU said: Hundley was to blame. He has shown up in preseason. He even had bright spots this season. There was no reason to think that he would play so poorly from what had been seen. But he was unable to consistently perform when full speed live games called for it. That is not on the plate of either McCarthy or Thompson. Going with Harrell was a mistake. Cutting all back-ups then signing Seneca Wallace after the preseason was a mistake. This was on the player not holding up his end of the deal. I thought Hundley had a poor preseason. A lot of people thought that. It was surprising because he had looked very good as a rookie. Taysom Hill should have been given some snaps with the #1s in the third or fourth preseason game, but McCarthy stuck with Hundley and continued to do so in the regular season. By the end, it began to feel like Hundley wasn't being held accountable. That's why I put this more on McCarthy than anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugger Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 I don't know how much we can blame Ted. We did move up to get him but we didn't move up to a premium spot in that draft. I suspect both Ted and Mike thought they could mold him into a serviceable NFL QB like they did with Flynn. Hundley probably looks okay at practice and in the preseason but when he had to go in this year he really flamed out. He was fine in the first series with scripted plays but once things got crazy we found out he doesn't read defenses very well and his accuracy leaves a lot to be desired. If we had even an average veteran QB we probably win a couple more games. But for me I'm kinda glad things went the way they did. It finally forced Ted to step aside and McCarthy to move on from Capers. These changes were way overdue. It is rather shocking how poorly so many collegiate QBs do in the pros. Is it because the college game is so different than what is required/demanded in the NFL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneTwoSixFive Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 I agree with Pugger that TT doesn't shoulder much of the blame, it was a throw of the dice in round 5 that didn't work, not a huge deal. MM (in my opinion) takes much more heat over that. I cannot imagine anyone else deciding to stick with Hundley without his full approval. Both he and Alex Van Pelt take a good deal of the blame for Hundley's performance and for not realising his limitations and dealing with that. Hundley himself takes 'blame' as well. In year three he wasn't ready to play. You can call that blame, or maybe he just wasn't talented enough, but he didn't seem able to learn what he needed to, to succeed. He is just not good enough in my three key areas for a QB, 1) Can you read what is happening on the field (pre and post snap). 2) Can you put the ball where it needs to go. 3) Can you buy a little time in the pocket when under pressure. In year three, Hundley was not good reading the whole field, had spotty accuracy (especially deep) and had a tendency to go back when under pressure, rather than forward. I liked his demeanour on the field (excepting the gum chewing) but he just wasn't good enough. Taysom Hill may have been no better in Hundley's place, we'll never know that, but I would have preferred him as the starter, when Rodgers went down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Just now, OneTwoSixFive said: MM (in my opinion) takes much more heat over that. I cannot imagine anyone else deciding to stick with Hundley without his full approval. Both he and Alex Van Pelt take a good deal of the blame for Hundley's performance and for not realising his limitations and dealing with that. Nope. There's really nobody to blame. Let's review: Hundley thrives in preseason. Had highest preseason QB rating of ANY QB in the league. Injured for second preseason. Continues playing well in third preseason. He obviously played well in practice. So you have that QB heading into the season. There's a difference between preseason, practice and real games. The only way to see what a player has in real games is to... Watch them... Watch them play in real games. Replacing him midseason? Played poorly in relief duty against the best defense in the league. Played poorly in his first start against the Saints. First start, road game, great pass defense. Showed a significant improvement in his third game. Completed 72% of his passes, 8.5 yards per attempt against an average Bears defense. At which point were we supposed to bring somebody else in? The Brett Hundley "debacle" was not a debacle. The only blame to be attributed here is on Hundley. He was not capable of reproducing his practice and preseason results in real time games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugger Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 53 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said: Nope. There's really nobody to blame. Let's review: Hundley thrives in preseason. Had highest preseason QB rating of ANY QB in the league. Injured for second preseason. Continues playing well in third preseason. He obviously played well in practice. So you have that QB heading into the season. There's a difference between preseason, practice and real games. The only way to see what a player has in real games is to... Watch them... Watch them play in real games. Replacing him midseason? Played poorly in relief duty against the best defense in the league. Played poorly in his first start against the Saints. First start, road game, great pass defense. Showed a significant improvement in his third game. Completed 72% of his passes, 8.5 yards per attempt against an average Bears defense. At which point were we supposed to bring somebody else in? The Brett Hundley "debacle" was not a debacle. The only blame to be attributed here is on Hundley. He was not capable of reproducing his practice and preseason results in real time games. Yes, sometimes a player will look good at practice/preseason but then bomb in real games to the surprise of his coaches. After a couple of games when it was plain Hundley was struggling the options we had were few. They could have tried Callahan but Joe might have been even worse. Nobody out on the street looked any better so the only other option was to make a trade for a veteran backup on another team. We don't know if Ted entertained this notion. Perhaps he did but other teams either didn't want to "help" him out or the price was too high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 The Blame Game is Lame Need some shame ? Look in the mirror Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneTwoSixFive Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 3 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said: Hundley thrives in preseason. Had highest preseason QB rating of ANY QB in the league. Injured for second preseason. Continues playing well in third preseason. He obviously played well in practice. So you have that QB heading into the season. There's a difference between preseason, practice and real games. The only way to see what a player has in real games is to... Watch them... Watch them play in real games. I didn't think Hundley played well in his third preseason, and I don't give MM or AVP a pass because "real games are different". I'd be more forgiving if it was Hundley's first or second year, but it was his third and the two coaches should know what he is capable of, by then. They have so much data to go by, everything they see in practice, and can analyse in cutups of every snap, I find it incredible they were unaware of his weaknesses, part of practice is testing players to see what they can handle and what they can't. Even though I acknowledge there was no way to guess how Taysom Hill would have played, I would have been happier seeing him under center, than Hundley......New Orleans obviously saw something in him to put him on their 53 man roster. Bottom line, you think the weaknesses could not be predicted, I think they should have been obvious, (to the coaches) by season 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Just now, OneTwoSixFive said: I didn't think Hundley played well in his third preseason, and I don't give MM or AVP a pass because "real games are different". That's your fault, and it's a big one. What do you honestly expect them to do? He thrived in every legitimate opportunity he was given, but you want to fault them because he had a bad third preseason? He had three touchdowns, 1 interception and an 88.8 passer rating this preseason. 110 QBR in second (limited preseason), 129 QBR in his rookie preseason. Seriously, what do you expect? Serious question, what in the hell did you expect from a backup QB in the preseason? How in the how did you expect them to know Hundley would suck as a backup when they had literally zero reason to expect he would suck? It's just ridiculous criticism for the sake of criticism in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneTwoSixFive Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 It is not a fault, not even a small one. What it is, is a difference of opinion. Get over yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Just now, OneTwoSixFive said: It is not a fault, not even a small one. What it is, is a difference of opinion. Get over yourself. If my opinion was that the world was flat, would you accept it? If a bad opinion is a bad opinion, I'm going to point that bad opinion out. If you want me to get over myself, prove to me how it was anybody's fault but Hundley's. At what point were we supposed to find a replacement? Keeping in mind that it would take roughly 2 weeks for any QB to learn what they were doing. Also keeping in mind who was available. Don't get offended because I pointed out flaws in your logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MNPackfan32 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 My goodness. Imagine if this franchise had actual QB problems. Sorry we don't have a HOF QB just chilling on ice waiting for the time? This is what happens when you have $100,000,000 invested in a QB. You can't exactly afford another quality QB. The failure was keeping Dom Capers as long as we did. A good defense wins us the Pittsburgh game, probably the Saints game and the Carolina game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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